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  • From: MarianneLuban AT aol.com
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Akhenaten and the Hebrew Religion
  • Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:46:12 EDT

In a message dated 7/22/2004 4:01:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
dwashbur AT nyx.net writes:


> > formoria AT carolina.rr.com writes:
> > > Marianne, let me put a question to you: how do we know that biblical
> > > Zoan is Tanis/San el-Hagar? Apart from the assumption that the
> > > references must be to the capital of Ramesside Egypt, I mean?
> >
> > It is assumed mainly on philological grounds. In hieroglyphs, Zoan is
> > spelled "Dan.t". As James Hoch ably demonstrates in his work "Semitic
> > Words In Egyptian Texts", Egyptian /D/ corresponds with Semitic "z". As
> > you probably know, the Egyptians wrote only with consonants, /a/ being one
> > of them. Mostly, it has been assumed this was vocalized like Semitic
> > "ayin"--but this has been questioned by some philologists with good
> reason.
> > There are many indications that /a/ was pronounced something like "o"
> > and, if not, some foreigners tended to hear an "o" there. The true "a" in
> > Zoan was likely the unwritten vowel and, of course, final /t/ is
> silent--as
> > it usually is in Egyptian. In the Coptic Bible(Coptic being the ultimate
> > stage of the Egyptian language) Zoan is written "djane" (due to the fact
> > that the final silent /t/ always demands a preceding vowel sound) and the
> > Arabs call Tanis "San el Hagar" or "San of the Stone". "Tanis" is the
> Greek
> > version only. The fact remains is that certain sounds can only be
> > approximated with foreign graphic systems. If Zoan is not Tanis--then one
> > scarcely knows what other place it can have been.
>
> I see massive speculation here, as well as questionable phonology. What, in
> your opinion, is the "questionable phonology"? I would be happy to discuss
> that with you, as Egyptian phonology is a favorite area of study with me.
> As for the "massive speculation", that is not mine. Zoan has been accepted
> as Tanis for a very long time. This place occupied a strategic position on
> the east side of the Tanitic branch of the Nile and therefore was important
> to
> peoples to the east when it came to dealings with Egypt. It was the refuge
> of Hadad the Edomite.
> The fact that pharaoh lived there is indicated in Isaiah 19:11. "The
> princes of Zoan are utter fools; the wisest counsellors of Pharaoh are a
> senseless
> council." Isaiah 30:2 says "They walk to go down to Egypt...to take refuge
> in the stronghold of Pharaoh and to take shelter in the shadow of
> Egypt...for
> his princes are at Zoan..."
>
> At this time, the Tanite Dynasty was still strong. One of their number,
> Sheshonq I, had conquered Judah and looted the temple. For that the wrath
> of
> the prophets was directed at Zoan. I prefer to shave my legs with Occam's
> Razor. The simplest explanation. However, if you have another site in
> Egypt
> that you think is a better candidate for Zoan, I would be interested in
> hearing
> about that.










As for the
>
> last sentence, who says it has to be a place that is already known? I'm
> all
>
> too familiar with the tendency to try and associate the unknown with
> something known, but it's a tendency that often needs to be resisted if we
> are to make true progress. "I don't know where it was" really is a
> legitimate answer in this type of context, and the fact is that we don't
> know
> where this Zoan was.
>
>





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