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Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum
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- From: furuli AT online.no
- To: b-hebrew AT franklin.metalab.unc.edu
- Subject: Re: ..."alive" after death in the HB?
- Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 16:57:44 +0100
Title: Re: [b-hebrew] ..."alive" after death in the HB?
Dear Uri,
There is no doubt that the peoples around ancient Israel believed
that some part of man (or perhaps the whole man, cf "Ishtars
descent to the netherworld") survived death. The Babylonians also
believed that the ETEMMU of man "man's spirit" could return
to earth. In addition they believed in the existence of gods and
demons.
I have for many years studied Babylonian, Sumerian, and Ugaritic
accounts dealing with creation, man, the netherworld etc. My
impression is that there is a great difference between these accounts
and those found in the Hebrew Bible. The writers of the Hebrew Bible
believed in the existence of many gods (Exodus 20:3). However, the
nature of this belief was different from that of the nations around.
These writers believed in one group who were gods in a generic, but
not in a religious (=they should not be worshiped) sense, namely, the
so-called "angels". They believed in another group who were
gods both in a generic and a religious sense, namely, the SHE:DIM, the
demons (Deuteronomy 32:17; Psalm 136:36,37), and they believed in
YHWH, God almighty, who was the one who should be worshiped.
Their belief in gods should be kept in mind when we read 1 Samuel
28. Another important point is the difference between an account of
something and a statement about something. When a Bible translation
translate )I++IM in Isaiah 19.3. as "the spirits of the
dead", this is an account, because it represents the words and
belief of the prophet. However, When Matthew (14:26) says (NIV) "When the disciples saw him walking on
the lake, they were terrified. "It's a ghost," they said,
and cried out in fear", or the Hebrew NT says RUA:X
RE:PF)IM HI, this is a report and not the statement of Matthew.
1 Samuel 28 is a report of what king Saul asked and what the
medium saw and said. It is the medium who used the word
"god", which could have been applied in a generic and/or
religious sense. Even the use of the word "Samuel" need not
imply a view on the part of the writer that Samuel the prophet
actually was present. The first use of BE:NI in 1 Kings 3:21
must for instance be taken in the sense "what appeared to be my
son". Thus the words in 1 Samuel 28 are in no way a statement of
the belief of the writer, or represent his viewpoint. He evidently
included this account because he deemed it important, and if he
entertained the belief in the SHE:DIM, he could have been
reminded of their existence by the use of the word "god" and
could have ascribed this spiritistic sèance to them as well. It is
clear from the Hebrew Bible that NEPESH dies and go back to the earth,
and I have never seen any passage in the Hebrew Bible which
contradicts the words of Ecclesiastes 3.19-20 that, as respects death,
man is like an animal, s/he goes to the same place as the animals and
have the same spirit. Thus neither RUA:X survived death, in the view
of the writers, so what was it that survived, according to the
texts?
Best regards
Rolf Furuli
Univeersity of Oslo
A few days ago Rolf Furuli wrote, inter alia, "There is no place in
the OT which definitely show that dead persons are "alive" after
death...."
What, then, is one to make of 1Samuel 28? Note also that the dead
Samuel is described as "god", a strong argument for those who posit
ancient cult of deified ancestor spirits.
Uri Hurwitz
---
-
..."alive" after death in the HB?,
uri hurwitz, 12/20/2002
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
- Re: ..."alive" after death in the HB?, furuli, 12/21/2002
- Re: ..."alive" after death in the HB?, Ben and Jo Crick, 12/21/2002
- Re: ..."alive" after death in the HB?, Martin A. Shields, 12/22/2002
- Re: ..."alive" after death in the HB?, furuli, 12/22/2002
- Re: ..."alive" after death in the HB?, Ben and Jo Crick, 12/22/2002
- Re: ..."alive" after death in the HB?, Ben and Jo Crick, 12/22/2002
- Re: ..."alive" after death in the HB?, Martin A. Shields, 12/22/2002
- Re: ..."alive" after death in the HB?, Ben and Jo Crick, 12/23/2002
- Re: ..."alive" after death in the HB?, Trevor & Julie Peterson, 12/23/2002
- Re: ..."alive" after death in the HB?, Martin A. Shields, 12/23/2002
- Re: ..."alive" after death in the HB?, Polycarp66, 12/23/2002
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