Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Charles David Isbell" <cisbell AT cox.net>]

Again, I have had my say re habiru, `ivri.  Thanks for the exchange, Ian.
Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Hutchesson" <mc2499 AT mclink.it>
To: "Biblical Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 3:00 AM
Subject: Re: Habiru. Was: Meaning of term Hebrew


> Dear Charles,
>
> >Ian wrote, " ... it is actually the WPA form found in the Amarna letters
> >which has the long vowel and not the Mesopotamian sources."
> >
> >Does it make a difference?  Each region attests its own peculiar vowel
> >patterns, and I rather expect "Canaanite" to be different from
Mesopotamian
> >dialects.
>
> What we are dealing with is Canaanite use of Akkadian.
> If the second vowel is stressed, it should supply a yod
> in the Hebrew representation. That was my idea.
>
> >The question is whether you believe the "outsiders" that are
> >attested all over the ANE for about 1000 years represent two separate
> >sociological phenomena or rather different manifestations of the same
> >phenomenon--a group that is outside the regularized and recognized "law"
or
> >"system."  That the Egyptians viewed the slaves among them as outsiders,
> >"Hebrews," is hardly remarkable.  The establishment naturally holds a
> >pejorative view of such groups.  My position is that several of the
groups
> >that come to constitute ancient Israel seem to derive from this social
> >class.
>
> This may be, but there is no historical evidence for it.
> What is happening is a projection onto the historical
> plane of traditions found in the OT/HB. This gives the
> opportunity for a hypothetical relationship between
> habiru and Hebrew. Without the projection there is no
> relationship at all.
>
> >As to the b/p interchange, there is overlap both in Egyptian and in
> >Ugaritic, and I think Liverani and others are correct to note that this
is
> >not an insurmountable problem.
>
> Each single problem is not insurmountable, but there
> are three phonological problems, the first and second
> consonants and the middle long vowel. We are left with
> only the sure third consonant. This all suggests that
> the data is being stretched to fit the conclusion.
>
>
> Ian
>
>
> >Incidentally, if the root is perceived to be (-P-R rather than (-B-R, I
> >believe this would point to a derivation from the noun meaning "dust",
> >another way of underscoring the low social status of the people so
> >described.
>
>
>
>
>
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