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  • From: Schmuel <schmuel AT bigfoot.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu
  • Subject: [b-hebrew] Deut 33:6 ... and let not his men be few
  • Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 07:22:02 -0400


Shalom b-hebrew,

Plesae allow me to pull this over from b-trans, where they are a little busy :-)
I have tried to clarify the question a bit too...

Deuteronomy 33:6 (KJV)
Let Reuben live, and not die; and let *not* his men be few.

Polycarp
Ex 33.6 Y:XiY R:)W.B"N W:)aL_YfMoT
WiYHiY M:TfYW MiS:P.fR
We have a poetic stich here. The 2nd line being a parallel to the 1st. Note the similarity between YfMoT [YMT] of line 1 and M:TfYW [MTYW] of line 2. The "let him not die" is played off against "his loins."

The first line reads Let Reuben live and not die

This is a jussive with the negative. The second line of the stich does not have the negative. MiS:PfR (= "number"> SfPaR "to count") with the negative it means "without number, innumerable", but without the negative means "few." <snip>

Schmuel

Thank you :-) and to Peter too for pointing out different elements in the passage...

I understand the parallel stitch, and thanks for the explanation, a friend confirmed
the same idea in aramaic, and many translations utilize it,
however my question for the forums continues as follows...

Since mispar means basically "number" or "count", in a way that can be ambiguous,
(e.g.Young's Literal Translation..Let Reuben live, and not die, And let his men be a number.)

.. and at least one Jewish commentary even talks about being (in) the count... the census ....
... .(Reuben would have enough men to be included in the census)

So, *if* one did not accept the double-duty negative,
(which there is some difference of opinion on )
...and if one was just translating independently the second part of this phrase...

I see at least three alternative translations, differing widely in meaning
"may his men be few"
"may his men be a number" (implication - many)
"may his men be (in) the count"

The result of (b) would be logically the same as the KJV verse ...

Deuteronomy 33:6 (KJV)
Let Reuben live, and not die; and let *not* his men be few.

... (allowing for a poetic negative in the KJV)

... while the other double-duty negative usage would also agree with the KJV,
though for different reasons...
(though I don't understand fully why "not-mispar" becomes "not few" rather than "not a number")

It looks from the lexicon word count and a quick analysis, that mispar becomes
"few" or "many"/"abundant" either contextually and/or if there is a related qualifier in
the phrasing ....
otherwise the usage is closer to the ambiguous "number", or "count" as in Youngs above ..

Is this (b-above) a valid alternate reasoning for the many translations that translate
like the KJV .. some like the Emphasized use the double-duty negative,
while others like Young's do not, yet both end up with very similar
meanings...

e.g Emphasized Bible - Rotherdam
Let Reuben live and not die, ---
nor his men be easily counted

Young's Literal Translation
Let Reuben live, and not die, And let his men be a number.

Thanks.. rest included just for additional related research...
**********************************************************************************************************
The Targum Onkelos reads "May Reuben live an everlasting life and not die a second death."

I found some interesting commentary on this, I think it was John Gill on Revelation,
relating the Hebraic idea to the Revelations idea of a second death......
---------------
Jouon-Muraoka, _A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew_, ยง160q (p. 609) states "The negative of a verb can extend its force to a second juxtaposed verb . . ." Examples from passages follow which does not include Dt. 33.6 although no claim is made to being exhaustive.

Strong evidence, allowance, for the KJV and similar translations ..
Polycarp was especially helpful and sent me the actual Jouon-Muraoka examples ... thanks ..


Schmuel AT bigfoot.com

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/




  • [b-hebrew] Deut 33:6 ... and let not his men be few, Schmuel, 05/22/2002

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