Biblical Hebrew Forum

["M & E Anstey" <anstey AT raketnet.nl>]

Dear Trudy et al,

The issues of Hebrew fonts on and off the web, and unicode are enourmously
complex. The reason that many people have (limited) success with displaying
Hebrew on their windows system is due to Uniscribe, which is a dll
(usp10.dll) in the windows\system directory that gives instructions to
windows programs as to how to arrange some of the Hebrew characters in the
Hebrew unicode region. This is still however a problem, as Uniscribe does a
fairly poor job at the moment. The best long term solution is open type.
There is only one open type Hebrew font that I know of, Guttman Vilna, and
it is only available at the moment legally, as far as I know, with Office
XP. Open Type fonts are fonts that carry detailed instructions for how to
render combinations of glyphs, which is what is needed for Hebrew (mind you,
other languages are much more complex than Hebrew).

The best thing about open type fonts, is that anyone is free to make their
own. TO do this, and it is not simple, you need to subscribe to the VOLT
community with miscrosoft, and downloand their software. If you do this, and
get Guttman Vilna (you will have to work out a legal way to do this!), and
load it in, you will see how open type fonts work. They are really neat.

I have the complete OT in unicode, without accents, and it displays
perfectly in Guttman Vilna in HTML in IE 5 and above. IE 5.5 and above
(maybe earlier IE as well) handles the font directions beautifuilly as well.
So you can enter in logical order the Hebrew, followed by and English word,
followed by Hebrew ,etc, and it will reverse the order of the Hebrew but not
the English. The whole sentence will also wrap right-to-left, etc, etc.

Hope this is of some help. This is just the tip of the iceberg of this
issue.

regards


Matthew Anstey
------------------------------------------
Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam
Faculteit der Godgeleerdheid
"Werkgroep Informatica"
anstey AT raketnet.nl

+31 (0)20 - 444-6626 (W)
+31 (0)255 - 52-6541 (H)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Biblical Hebrew digest" <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
To: "b-hebrew digest recipients" <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Friday, 26 October 2001 6:00
Subject: b-hebrew digest: October 25, 2001


> B-HEBREW Digest for Thursday, October 25, 2001.
>
> 1. RE: Two vowels together and Unicode Hebrew
> 2. RE: hebrew translation
> 3. RE: hebrew translation
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: Two vowels together and Unicode Hebrew
> From: "Peter Kirk" <Peter_Kirk AT sil.org>
> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:48:48 +0100
> X-Message-Number: 1
>
> Thank you, Henry. This is very useful, and I will pass it on to my
> colleagues.
>
> There are a few other raphe's in the Michigan etc text, or the CCAT text
> which I assume is more or less the same (also BHS) e.g. in Psalm 119:99.
But
> I don't think they co-occur with dagesh outside the Decalogue.
>
> I realise that this is not a meaningful category phonologically. But it is
> when you are trying to write software to encode and display the text
> correctly.
>
> Peter Kirk
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Henry Churchyard [mailto:churchh AT uts.cc.utexas.edu]
> > Sent: 25 October 2001 01:22
> > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > Subject: Re: Two vowels together and Unicode Hebrew
> >
> >
> > The spelling of "Jerusalem" where the _pathah._ seems to be juxtaposed
> > directly against _h.ireq_ is actually really a Q're -- implicitly
> > based on the spelling Y-R-W-Sh-L-Y-M, as opposed to the K'tibh
> > spelling Y-R-W-Sh-L-M.  Not quite sure what you're saying about
> > _pathah._ furtivum (_g@nubhah_); logically speaking, _pathah._
> > furtivum always directly follows the vowel under the preceding
> > consonant, but graphically speaking the _pathah._ furtivum is under
> > the word-final consonant (just like any other vowel diacritic).
> >
> > As for _tah.ath_ in Exodus 20:4, the double cantillation in the
> > decalogue is accompanied by double pointing in other respects -- for
> > example, the few _raphe_ marks which are transcribed in the
> > Claremont-Michigan-Westminster BHS e-text version are mostly (all?)
> > cases where a consonant receives _dagesh_ under one version of the
> > accentuation, but is spirantized (i.e. _raphe_) under the other
> > version of the accentuation.  Similarly with _mittah.ath_ -- if this
> > word receives an _'athnah._ accent, then the first syllable has a long
> > _qames._ vowel appropriate to pausal status, while if the word
> > receives a lesser accent, then its vowel is unlengthened short
> > _pathah._ appropriate to non-pausal status.
> >
> > In general, "consonant letters with two accompanying vowel diacritic
> > symbols" does not really seem to be a natural category or
> > instrinsically very significant feature, in and of itself, of the
> > Tiberian orthography, as far as I can see...
> >
> > --
> > Henry Churchyard   churchh AT crossmyt.com   http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [Peter_Kirk AT sil.org]
> > To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> > $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.
> >
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: hebrew translation
> From: "Trudey N Santos" <santry AT bigpond.com.au>
> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 06:25:38 +1000
> X-Message-Number: 2
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C15D1D.DCCC5D20
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> I checked my BHS at Job 25.2 and it has a waw at the end.
> wymormB solv hcu
> the font Hebrew works on the screen for me also.
> I picked it up off the internet somewhere, I think, but it may have been
on
> some cheap program I bought.  I have adjusted the font size also.  If it
was
> from the net will it work for everyone?
>
> Trudey Santos
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: SDBIBLESTUDY AT aol.com [mailto:SDBIBLESTUDY AT aol.com]
>   Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 4:32 AM
>   To: Biblical Hebrew
>   Subject: hebrew translation
>
>
>   Sorry for breaking into the list and not knowing how to type this in
your
> English Phoenetic Hebrew...I have typed it using a Hebrew Font instead and
> it is still right to left, Hebrew Style.
>   What does this say in Hebrew?
>   nymormB solv hcu
>   Jeff Fisher
>   Minister,  Church of Christ
>   San Diego ---
>   You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [santry AT bigpond.com.au]
>   To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> $subst('Email.Unsub')
>   To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.
>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C15D1D.DCCC5D20
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
> <BODY>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
> class=3D710171420-24102001>I=20
> checked my BHS at Job 25.2 and it has a waw at the end<SPAN=20
> class=3D350201920-24102001>.</SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DHebrew size=3D4>wymormB solv hcu =
> </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial>the <FONT =
> lang=3D0=20
> FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">font Hebrew works on the screen for me&nbsp;<SPAN=20
> class=3D350201920-24102001>also.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>=
>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial>I picked it =
> up off the=20
> internet somewhere<SPAN class=3D350201920-24102001>,</SPAN>&nbsp;I =
> think<SPAN=20
> class=3D350201920-24102001>,</SPAN> but it may have been on some cheap=20
> program&nbsp;I bought<SPAN class=3D350201920-24102001>.&nbsp; I have =
> adjusted the=20
> font size also.&nbsp; If it was from the net will it work for=20
> everyone?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
> class=3D350201920-24102001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
> class=3D350201920-24102001>Trudey =
> Santos</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE>
>   <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
> face=3DTahoma=20
>   size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
> SDBIBLESTUDY AT aol.com=20
>   [mailto:SDBIBLESTUDY AT aol.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 24, =
> 2001 4:32=20
>   AM<BR><B>To:</B> Biblical Hebrew<BR><B>Subject:</B> hebrew=20
>   translation<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
> face=3DArial=20
>   lang=3D0 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Sorry for breaking into the =
> list and not=20
>   knowing how to type this in your English Phoenetic Hebrew...I have =
> typed it=20
>   using a Hebrew Font instead and it is still right to left, Hebrew =
> Style.=20
>   <BR>What does this say in Hebrew? <BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
> face=3DHebrew=20
>   lang=3D0 size=3D5 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">nymormB solv hcu </FONT><FONT =
> color=3D#000000=20
>   face=3DHebrew lang=3D0 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT =
> color=3D#000000=20
>   face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Jeff Fisher =
> <BR>Minister,=20
>   &nbsp;Church of Christ <BR>San Diego</FONT> ---<BR>You are currently=20
>   subscribed to b-hebrew as: [santry AT bigpond.com.au]<BR>To unsubscribe, =
> forward=20
>   this message to $subst('Email.Unsub')<BR>To =
> subscribe,=20
>   send an email to=20
> join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>=
>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C15D1D.DCCC5D20--
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: hebrew translation
> From: "Peter Kirk" <Peter_Kirk AT sil.org>
> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:12:58 +0100
> X-Message-Number: 3
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C15D78.4BA29750
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> The font Hebrew which I have, and which displays these texts correctly,
> includes the following:
>
> Copyright 1991-1998, Galaxie Software. All rights reserved.
> http://www.bible.org/galaxie
>
> This led me to http://www.galaxie.com/html/biblescript.htm. It's worth
> looking at this site re Hebrew fonts and downloads. But the font "Hebrew"
is
> based on old technology, so I am glad that they are moving to Unicode (see
> the link on that page).
>
> Peter Kirk
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Trudey N Santos [mailto:santry AT bigpond.com.au]
>   Sent: 24 October 2001 21:26
>   To: Biblical Hebrew
>   Subject: RE: hebrew translation
>
>
>   I checked my BHS at Job 25.2 and it has a waw at the end.
>   wymormB solv hcu
>   the font Hebrew works on the screen for me also.
>   I picked it up off the internet somewhere, I think, but it may have been
> on some cheap program I bought.  I have adjusted the font size also.  If
it
> was from the net will it work for everyone?
>
>   Trudey Santos
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: SDBIBLESTUDY AT aol.com [mailto:SDBIBLESTUDY AT aol.com]
>     Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 4:32 AM
>     To: Biblical Hebrew
>     Subject: hebrew translation
>
>
>     Sorry for breaking into the list and not knowing how to type this in
> your English Phoenetic Hebrew...I have typed it using a Hebrew Font
instead
> and it is still right to left, Hebrew Style.
>     What does this say in Hebrew?
>     nymormB solv hcu
>     Jeff Fisher
>     Minister,  Church of Christ
>     San Diego ---
>     You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [santry AT bigpond.com.au]
>     To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> $subst('Email.Unsub')
>     To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.
>
>   ---
>   You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [Peter_Kirk AT sil.org]
>   To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> $subst('Email.Unsub')
>   To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.
>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C15D78.4BA29750
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
> <BODY>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D522515515-25102001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
> size=3D2>The=20
> font Hebrew which I have, and which displays these texts correctly, =
> includes the=20
> following:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D522515515-25102001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
>
> size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D522515515-25102001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
>
> size=3D2>Copyright 1991-1998, Galaxie Software. All rights reserved. <A=20
> href=3D"http://www.bible.org/galaxie";>http://www.bible.org/galaxie</A></F=
> ONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D522515515-25102001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
>
> size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D522515515-25102001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
> size=3D2>This=20
> led me to <A=20
> href=3D"http://www.galaxie.com/html/biblescript.htm";>http://www.galaxie.c=
> om/html/biblescript.htm</A>.=20
> It's worth looking at this site re Hebrew fonts and downloads. But the =
> font=20
> "Hebrew" is based on old technology, so I am glad that they are moving =
> to=20
> Unicode (see the link on that page).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D522515515-25102001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
>
> size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D522515515-25102001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
> size=3D2>Peter=20
> Kirk</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
> solid">
>   <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
> face=3DTahoma=20
>   size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Trudey N Santos=20
>   [mailto:santry AT bigpond.com.au]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 24 October 2001=20
>   21:26<BR><B>To:</B> Biblical Hebrew<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: hebrew=20
>   translation<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
>   <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
> class=3D710171420-24102001>I=20
>   checked my BHS at Job 25.2 and it has a waw at the end<SPAN=20
>   class=3D350201920-24102001>.</SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
>   <DIV><FONT face=3DHebrew color=3D#0000ff size=3D4>wymormB solv hcu =
> </FONT></DIV>
>   <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial>the <FONT =
> lang=3D0=20
>   FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">font Hebrew works on the screen for me&nbsp;<SPAN =
>
>   =
> class=3D350201920-24102001>also.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>=
>
>   <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial>I picked =
> it up off the=20
>   internet somewhere<SPAN class=3D350201920-24102001>,</SPAN>&nbsp;I =
> think<SPAN=20
>   class=3D350201920-24102001>,</SPAN> but it may have been on some cheap =
>
>   program&nbsp;I bought<SPAN class=3D350201920-24102001>.&nbsp; I have =
> adjusted=20
>   the font size also.&nbsp; If it was from the net will it work for=20
>   everyone?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
>   <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
>   class=3D350201920-24102001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>   <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
>   class=3D350201920-24102001>Trudey =
> Santos</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
>   <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
>   <BLOCKQUOTE>
>     <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
> face=3DTahoma=20
>     size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
> SDBIBLESTUDY AT aol.com=20
>     [mailto:SDBIBLESTUDY AT aol.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 24, =
> 2001=20
>     4:32 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Biblical Hebrew<BR><B>Subject:</B> hebrew=20
>     translation<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
> lang=3D0=20
>     face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Sorry for breaking into =
> the list and=20
>     not knowing how to type this in your English Phoenetic Hebrew...I =
> have typed=20
>     it using a Hebrew Font instead and it is still right to left, Hebrew =
> Style.=20
>     <BR>What does this say in Hebrew? <BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 =
> face=3DHebrew=20
>     color=3D#000000 size=3D5 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">nymormB solv hcu =
> </FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
>     face=3DHebrew color=3D#000000 size=3D2 =
> FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
>     face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Jeff =
> Fisher <BR>Minister,=20
>     &nbsp;Church of Christ <BR>San Diego</FONT> ---<BR>You are currently =
>
>     subscribed to b-hebrew as: [santry AT bigpond.com.au]<BR>To =
> unsubscribe,=20
>     forward this message to =
> $subst('Email.Unsub')<BR>To=20
>     subscribe, send an email to=20
>   join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT>---<BR>You =
> are=20
>   currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [Peter_Kirk AT sil.org]<BR>To =
> unsubscribe,=20
>   forward this message to =
> $subst('Email.Unsub')<BR>To=20
>   subscribe, send an email to=20
> join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C15D78.4BA29750--
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> END OF DIGEST
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [anstey AT raketnet.nl]
> To unsubscribe, forward this message to
$subst('Email.Unsub')
> To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.
>