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  • From: "Reginald Wallace Ponder, Jr." <rwponder AT lycos.com>
  • To: b-hebrew
  • Subject: Re: Another Egyptian text
  • Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:47:32



This is an interesting and provocative proposal. Clearly there is
sufficient social/religious intercourse between Egypt and Ancient Israel
for this kind of "borrowing" to be possible. But I do not see the evidence
in the Hebrew text for the kind of ontological speculation that seems to be
present in the Egyptian texts under discussion. The Hebrew in Ex. 3:14 is
easily read as a simple tautology: "I will be what I will be" -- or
something akin to that. Not just grammatically but at the
religious/ideological level this may best be understood tautologically.
God is telling Moses that He is a trustworthy Deity. This is consistent
with Ancient Israelite thought in general -- God's character is a basic
concern of the Bible.
Anyway, from my (limited) studied of Egyptian, it seems to be a much
more complex verbal system than is BH. Specifically, Classical Egyptian
contains a number of differentiated grammatical forms to communicate
diverse modalities. Therefore, it is possible to explain the apparently
simpler statement in Ex.3:14 as a function of the BH verbal system. But
the simplest explanation is that the author of Exodus has no desire to
engage in Egyptian-style ontological speculation.
I am still interested in this, however; I have no ideological bias
against Egyptian influence at this or any other point. The Bible both
resembles, and stands in contrast with, other Ancient Near Eastern texts in
a variety of ways.
Shalom,
Rev. Reggie Ponder, Jr.

On 09/18/00, "barre AT nethere.com" wrote:
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>
> Here is another Egyptian cosmological text that illustrates the fascination
> with the verb "to be[come]:
>
> The Book of Knowing of the rollings[emanations] of Ra, and the overthrowing
> of Apep.
>
> [These are] the words which the god Neb-er-tcher spoke after he had come
> into being:
>
> "I am he who came into being in the form of Khepera, and I am the creator
> of everything which came into being; now the things which I had created,
> and which came forth out of my mouth after I had come into being myself,
> were exceedingly many. The sky (or, heaven) had not come into being, the
> earth did not exist, and the children of the earth, and the creeping
> things, had not been made at this time. I myself raised them from out of
> the Nu, from a state of helpless inertness."
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> L.M. Barre, Ph.D.
>
> Angelfire.com/ca2/AncientIsrael
>
> Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com
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> Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit
>
>
> <HTML><BODY
> BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF>Here&nbsp;is&nbsp;another&nbsp;Egyptian&nbsp;cosmological&nbsp;text&nbsp;that&nbsp;illustrates&nbsp;the&nbsp;fascination&nbsp;with&nbsp;the&nbsp;verb&nbsp;"to&nbsp;<BR>
> be[come]:
> <BR>
>
>
> <FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3
> FACE="Garamond">The&nbsp;Book&nbsp;of&nbsp;Knowing&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;rollings[emanations]&nbsp;of&nbsp;Ra,&nbsp;and&nbsp;the&nbsp;<BR>
> overthrowing&nbsp;of&nbsp;Apep.
> <BR>
>
> <BR>
> [These&nbsp;are]&nbsp;the&nbsp;words&nbsp;which&nbsp;the&nbsp;god&nbsp;Neb-er-tcher&nbsp;spoke&nbsp;after&nbsp;he&nbsp;had&nbsp;<BR>
> come&nbsp;into&nbsp;being:
> <BR>
>
> <BR>
> "I&nbsp;am&nbsp;he&nbsp;who&nbsp;came&nbsp;into&nbsp;being&nbsp;in&nbsp;the&nbsp;form&nbsp;of&nbsp;Khepera,&nbsp;and&nbsp;I&nbsp;am&nbsp;the&nbsp;creator&nbsp;of&nbsp;everything&nbsp;<BR>
> which&nbsp;came&nbsp;into&nbsp;being;&nbsp;now&nbsp;the&nbsp;things&nbsp;which&nbsp;I&nbsp;had&nbsp;created,&nbsp;and&nbsp;which&nbsp;came&nbsp;forth&nbsp;out&nbsp;of&nbsp;<BR>
> my&nbsp;mouth&nbsp;after&nbsp;I&nbsp;had&nbsp;come&nbsp;into&nbsp;being&nbsp;myself,&nbsp;were&nbsp;exceedingly&nbsp;many.&nbsp;&nbsp;The&nbsp;sky&nbsp;(or,&nbsp;<BR>
> heaven)&nbsp;had&nbsp;not&nbsp;come&nbsp;into&nbsp;being,&nbsp;the&nbsp;earth&nbsp;did&nbsp;not&nbsp;exist,&nbsp;and&nbsp;the&nbsp;children&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;earth,&nbsp;<BR>
> and&nbsp;the&nbsp;creeping&nbsp;things,&nbsp;had&nbsp;not&nbsp;been&nbsp;made&nbsp;at&nbsp;this&nbsp;time.&nbsp;&nbsp;I&nbsp;myself&nbsp;raised&nbsp;them&nbsp;from&nbsp;out&nbsp;<BR>
> of&nbsp;the&nbsp;Nu,&nbsp;from&nbsp;a&nbsp;state&nbsp;of&nbsp;helpless&nbsp;inertness."</FONT>
> </BODY></HTML>
> <BR><BR><HTML><BODY
> BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF>---------------------------------------------------
> <BR>L.M. Barre, Ph.D.
> <BR>
> <BR>Angelfire.com/ca2/AncientIsrael</HTML></BODY>
> <BR><BR>Download NeoPlanet at <a
> href=http://www.neoplanet.com>http://www.neoplanet.com</a>
> --X-X-X-X-X-X--NeoPlanet-MIME-TEXTandHTML--X-X-X-X-X-X-X6393939-X-X--



  • Another Egyptian text, barre, 09/17/2000
    • <Possible follow-up(s)>
    • Re: Another Egyptian text, Reginald Wallace Ponder, Jr., 09/18/2000

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