Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Walter Mattfeld" <mattfeld AT mail.pjsnet.com>]

----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan D. Safren <yonsaf AT beitberl.ac.il>
To: Walter Mattfeld <mattfeld AT mail.pjsnet.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: Dating the Pentateuch


> Dear Walter,
> You wrote:
> "
> As you well know, the "latest elements" date a historical composition.
> If I
> am correct in asserting that Madai's Japhethic descent is based on the
> Athenian Greek Medus myth, which can be no earlier than the 6th century
> BCE,
> then obviously we have to date the Pentateuch to period after the
> 1200's..."
>
> Aren't you overlooking the composite nature of the Torah? In other
> words, the List of Nations in Gen. was composed after the appearance of
> Media (but before the appearance of Persia), but other elements may have
> been composed earlied (such as Sihon's victory song) or later (such as
> references to the Exile in Deut. 28).

Dear Jonathan,

I have no problem with earlier Pre-exilic sources being incorporated within
a 5th century Pentateuch.

I guess where we differ is that I suspect you see the Pentateuch as
Pre-Exilic and being only modified or updated in Persian times, which is the
usual understanding by main-stream Humanist scholarship, while I suspect it
is an original creation of the Persian era, incorporating earlier traditions
and stories.

I suspect we may also differ on the meaning of  "Torah" from the thrust of
your above argument. Evidently you understand Torah to mean the Pentateuch.
I understand Torah to be only the Book of Deuteronomy (I could be persuaded
for the legal and cultic parts of Leviticus & Deuteronomy as being the
original Torah).

In proposing that the Pentateuch is a creation of the 5th century BCE, I
have given much thought to asking several questions about the "sitz im
leben," that is, what period of time was this work composed in and for what
kind of an audience ? What where the goals of the author (s), how did he see
history accounting for his present (the present being the time of the book's

composition).

In creating a composition the author has to have some kind of a plan. A
beginning, a middle, and an ending. If the work is a history of a nation,
then the author unconsciously reflects his "sitz im leben" in his work. He
judges the past and arranges it to explain how "his present" came to be (he
also seeks to convince his audience that his interpretation of the past is
the correct explanation for their present circumstances).

The Pentateuch foreshadows the ending, it is an integral part of the
National History and cannot it be torn out of  the greater history as a
separate work that was later added to; Moses predicts exile in Deuteronomy
30:1-10, and it comes about in 2 Kings. This is a ring-composition of sorts.
Adam and Eve are driven into exile away from the garden of Eden,
foreshadowing Israel's being driven away from the Promised Land, which is
also likened to a garden of Eden by the prophets. Both Adam and the nation
of Israel are guilty of the same crime, disobeying God's commands (this is
another ring-composition). Endings date beginnings, 2 Kings 25:27 gives us
an ending of ca. 560-550 BCE. The whole work is composed in prose, and we
know that the mid 6th century BCE also happens to be the same time that the
earliest prose histories appear amongst the Ionian Greek historians (who
were called Logographers). I just can't see the Pentateuch being any earlier
as a cohesive prose history, contrary to the DH theory of an ancient text
composed in Solomon's days and updated over a period of ca. 500 yrs by
various layerings of  JEDP.

The final clue for the dating of the pentateuch is the blessing of Japheth
by Noah, which I understand is an allusion to Cyrus Medo-Persian empire
co-ruling Canaan with the Jews (Shem). I know you believe that the absence
of Persia in Genesis 10's table of nations is a marker that the work is
Pre-Exilic. But as I have explained in earlier posts, Persia _is present_ as
Madai, the Persians being called Medes by Greeks, Jews, Egyptians, and the
South Arabian Mineans. Did you receive my paper titled "Dating the
pentateuch the Japheth Mystery" ?  I can send it to you, it explains in
greater depth the Madai/Persian connection than the earlier brief postings
on the subject to this list.

All the best,

Walter

Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld
Walldorf by Heidelberg
Baden-Wurttemburg
Germany