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b-hebrew - RE: welo'+qatal as negative wayyiqtol (To Niccatti)

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  • From: "Moon-Ryul Jung" <moon AT saint.soongsil.ac.kr>
  • To: b-hebrew
  • Subject: RE: welo'+qatal as negative wayyiqtol (To Niccatti)
  • Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:54:35


Dear Alivero, thanks for your clarification. Let me clarify what I wrote
about logic, because I think it is important to understand negatives.

> > [Moon]
> > In sum, do you mean that
> > In direct speech, lo'+qatal + X is the negation of initial qatal, whereas
> > it is the negation of wayyiqtol in historical narrative?
> >
> > BUT, from the view point of logic, negative sentences express a kind of
> > state, the state in which something is NOT true. For example, "he did not
> > come" means that it was not true that he came. In other words, "he did not
> > come" does not refer to a concrete event, but to the state in which such
> > an event did not happen. So, negative statements cannot "move the
> > referenc=
> e
> > time forward", but it should use the currently established reference time
> > like ordinary qatal. Your theory that welo'+qatal is mainline and moves
> > the RT forward. How would you explain it in the face of the general logic?
> >
>
[Alviero]
> 4) As negative wayyiqtol, welo'+qatal is a mainline construction in
> historical narrative. I am not sure that it moves the RT forward, as you
> say, because I do not quite understand what you mean. As negative
> wayyiqtol, welo'+qatal is the narrative tense. However, just as positive
> wayyiqtol, it does not always move the event line forward as in cases of
> explicative or conclusive wayyiqtol.
> In my posting above I think I described a textual situation--is it
> this what you mean by theory?
> If my description of the textual situation is correct, I do not
> feel I need to explain anything in the face of the general logic, nor I can.
> I am not sure that negative sentences express a kind of state, or
> do not refer to a concrete event. I am not sure, either, what do you mean
> by "ordinary qatal."
[Moon]
I meant "x-qatal in historical narrative". X-qatals in historical
narrative
describe some background information. This background information can be
regarded as "state" that holds at the current reference time, rather than
"event". I thought that negative statements describe states like x-qatals.
About this, please see below.

>Differently from historical narrative, in direct
> speech initial qatal does have a RT of its own. See e.g. Joab's report in 2
> Sam. 12:27 *nilHamt=EE* (this and other examples are discussed in my
> _Syntax=
> _
> ##22-23).
> As fas as I understand, both sentences type "He came," and "He did
> not come," are acceptable answers to a question type "Did Peter come?"
> Both provide a piece of information, either positive or negative. What we
> get through linguistic signs is information, isn't it.
>
[Moon]
Yes, both provide a piece of information. But that information may be
a state or an event. "He came" refers to a particular event. Its
negation, "He did not come", refers to not happening of a particular
event. If this "not happening of a particular event" can be considered a
state,
it follows that the negative statement cannot move the reference time
forward; Statemenst that describe states cannot move the reference time
forward.

But as you said, we may have to examine in more depth if
negative statements always describe states.

Respectfully,
Moon-Ryul Jung
Assistant Professor
Dept of Computer Science
Soongsil University,
Seoul, Korea
> Peace and all good.
> Alviero Niccacci
>
>
> Studium Biblicum Franciscanum Tel. +972 - 2 - 6282 936
> POB 19424 - 91193 - Jerusalem Fax +972 - 2 - 6264 519
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>
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