Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Paul Zellmer <zellmer AT cag.pworld.net.ph>]

(Since Rolf narrowed the subject, I elided those parts of Rodney's questions 
that were
extraneous.)

Rolf,

It appears to me as if you are putting words into Rodney's mouth, making it 
appear
that he said something that he did not.  He supposed that the waw-plus-dagesh 
added
*sequence*, which is different from *moving the account forwards*.  Since your
challenge was to those who limited the *moving of account forward* to the
waw-plus-dagesh, and since I have seen no one say that, I would be surprised 
if you
got any takers on your challenge.

That does not describe my position, but I will interact with your question 
anyway.

Rolf Furuli wrote:

> Rodney K. Duke wrote to Bryan:
>
> >2) Regarding wayyiqtol: It is one matter to say that wayyiqtol is
> >'inherently perfective' and another matter to evaluate Furuli's thesis
> >regarding the yiqtol in wayyiqtol.  Might it not be that the yiqtol
> >focuses in on an action/time-segment of a larger event (as perceived in
> >the mind of the speaker) and that the wa+doubling adds a forward-moving
> >Reference Time that creates a sense of sequentiality and hence
> >perfectivity to most wayyiqtols?
>
>
> Dear Rod,
>
> You have asked a series of important questions in your recent posts. This
> has been a help to focus on the real issues regarding the meaning of the
> verb forms. To your question 2) above, I have a question to those on the
> list who believe that the WA(YY)-element of WAYYIQTOL is more than a simple
> conjunction:
>
> For the sake of argument, please leave alone any preconceived ideas about
> the meaning or use of the verb forms. Then /conjunction, sequence/, on the
> basis of grammatical, syntactical, or other linguistic arguments, show that
> the simple conjunction WA/WE prefixed to verbs form cannot drive  the
> account forwards in the same way as WA(YY)  is able to drive the account
> forwards. To state it differently: exactly which force is found in the
> WA(YY)- element (a force being able to make a temporal sequence out of a
> chain of verbs) which is not found in the conjunction WA/WE?

I posit that it is that very characteristic of the waw conjuction that *is* 
being used
in the wayyiqtol to move the account forward.  And that is why the mainline 
forms in
the future-looking text are also marked by waw-conjunctions.  However, the 
conjunction
by itself does not explain why the vast majority of wayyiqtols describe 
past-time
events.  Nor is this characteristic the one that is *always* picked up on by 
the
writer.  I also posit a characteristic of the waw that appears to be a clause 
marker,
which would explain why it often occurs clause-initially when the events are 
*not*
moved forward (i.e., when further description is given or the like).  And, of 
course,
between nouns, the conjuction simply acts as a conjunction.

> Take Genesis 1:3-5 (NIV) as an example:

<snip>

> More problematic are the two WAYYIQTOLS after the QATAL. The RT of the first
> seems to coincide with the RT of the first WAYYIQTOL of v 3, and the RT of
> the last seems to coincide with the RT of the QATAL, so the two last
> WAYYIQTOLs seem to include the whole sequence mentioned in vv 3,4, and 5
> rather than adding to the sequence.

This, of course, is a side issue, and probably should have had it's own 
thread.
Actually, here *you* are the one assuming, assuming that the RT of verse 5 is 
the same
as the RT of verse 3.  You are projecting your understanding of what causes 
the light
and darkness on the narration of its creation.  The writer/narrator simply 
present is
like this:

Initially, there was no light (but there was darkness).
God created light.
God separated the light from the darkness.
God named the light and the darkness.
The darkness and the light alternated.

Hey, that looks perfectly sequential to me, with no overlap!

Regards,

Paul
--
On May 27:
  1930  Masking tape is patented
  1961  Pres Kennedy announces US goal to reach Moon

Paul and Dee Zellmer, Jimmy Guingab, Geoffrey Beltran
Ibanag Translation Project
Cabagan, Isabela, Rep. of Philippines

zellmer AT cag.pworld.net.ph