Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Bryan Rocine" <596547 AT ican.net>]

Hi John,  It's a lot of fun hacking through real examples!  you wrote:

>Bryan wrote
> > The use of the X-qatal in 18:7 indicates that while Sarah was baking,
> > Abraham was running.  
> 
> Like I said,  we'el habbaqar  rats Abraham is functionally
> equivalent to wayyarots Abraham 'el habbaqar, since if we
> had the former you would be compelled to give an identical
> interpretation as you gave above.  This interpretation would
> be dictated by the context + logic, not the verbal form
> used.
> 
> I'm confused, however, comparing the above with what you
> proposed before:
> 
> Bryan wrote:
> >  1.  X-qatal--->wayyiqtol
> >
> >  2.  wayyiqtol--->X-qatal
> >
> >  Series (1), when found at the beginning of a narrative paragraph
> > (anywhere  in a pericope), will give antecedent information, describing

> > the situation at the time when the following wayyiqtol pushes the 
> > narrative time forward.
> >  I think this is your pluperfect idea, Peter.
> >
> >  In (2), the X-qatal gives simultaneous (with the preceding wayyiqtol)
> >  information.  It functions as a topicalizing clause; that is, it
shifts
> > the  focus of the narrative from the layout of a plotline to the layout
of
> >  information which clarifies, contrasts with, or is simultaneous with
> > the  plotline.  Is pluperfect an accurate characterization of X-qatal
in
> > this  second series?  Doesn't seem quite right to me.
> >
> 
> Bryan, isn't the Gen 18:7 example series 2, in which case
> (per your hypothesis) Abraham's running to the herd would
> have to be simultaneous with him giving directions to Sarah?

Notice I said that the running is simultaneous with Sarah's *baking* not
Abraham's speaking.  In that the X-qatal follows in a series with vayo'mer,
which of course it does, we would have to strictly consider the running as
simultaneous with the speaking.  But writers are not as strict as we
grand-standing grammarians.   The X-qatal follows *notionally* Sarah's
implicit obedience to Abraham's instructions.  The X-qatal is simultaneous
with a notional or understood (i.e., elided) wayyiqtol meaning "then she
baked": vato'peh or "and then she did as he had commanded":  vata`aseh
ka'a$er civah 'abraham.  I am not just trying to play grammatical
slight-of-hand.  Doesn't our world knowledge inform us that Abraham ran
while Sarah baked?  But where is the baking?  It has elided from the
surface representation.  I think the narrator is trying to create a sense
of breathlessness, and the wayyiqtol representing Sarah's baking is
implicitly clear enough to be dispensable from the representation.  

> 
> And doesn't the example of Gen 19:22-25 which we discussed
> before fit under series 1 (specifically v. 23 is X + qatal
> at start of paragraph), which per your analysis would make
> the sun rise (and Lot's arrival and the fire and sulphur)
> pluperfect, rather than joined with the following?  (I grant
> it's not quite the same as your series 1 because here you
> have three X + qatals before you get to the wayyiqtol).

I said my piece on this example in an earlier post in the same thread. 
I'll stick by it.  

> 
> Another case that shows that wayyiqtol plus X + qatal can be
> functionally equivalent to wayyiqtol plus wayyiqtol (and not
> simultaneous) is Gen 24:46:
> wa'esht wegam haggemallim hishqathah - I drank, and also she
> watered the camels.
<snip>

Your example from Gen 24:46 is very interesting, and the events are indeed
sequential.  Here we see that the Hebrew story-teller has options available
to him.  Certainly, Abraham's servant *could* have used a wayyiqtol for
representing R's watering the camels and in so doing he would represent the
little history as a series of events.  By choosing for the second clause an
X-qatal, he represents the little history as a package.  A real series of
events does not require representation as a series of events.  Why the
"package" representation?  It enabled Abraham's servant to point to the
attribute of Reb. as a fulfillment of his prayer for godspeed.  "Then I
drank, but even of the camels--she was a waterer (of them)."

Shalom,
Bryan


B. M. Rocine
Associate Pastor
Living Word Church
6101 Court St. Rd.
Syracuse, NY 13208

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