Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Jim McGowan <jmcgowan AT safeweb.net>]

For complete Hebrew Bible with all vowel pointings and all cantillation marks 
please contact:

www.linguistsoftware.com

Hope this helps...

Jim McGowan
Doctoral Student
Tyndale Theological Seminary


-----Original Message-----
From:   Biblical Hebrew digest [SMTP:b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu]
Sent:   Wednesday, July 08, 1998 7:02 PM
To:     b-hebrew digest recipients
Subject:        b-hebrew digest: July 08, 1998

Biblical Hebrew Digest for Wednesday, July 08, 1998.

1. software Bible study
2. Re: software Bible study
3. re: veil
4. software Bible study
5. BHS Accents

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Subject: software Bible study
From: "David Humpal" <ebedyah AT elite.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:20:36 -0700
X-Message-Number: 1

Christian,

I would also vote for BibleWorks.  The thing I like about it is the search
capabilities.  When you're examining a text, all you have to do is
right-click on a word, highlight "search on form" (or "search on root") and
instantly you have references to every use of that form.  You can also type
in the Hebrew word(s) you wish to search for.  Of course the instant viewing
of morphology and definitions is an additional time-saver.  But fair
warning -- there are some errors, although they are relatively rare.  Also
comparing the Hebrew text with just a few clicks to the Septuagint and the
Vulgate can be helpful!

Good luck in your studies.

Dave Humpal, First Christian Church, Merced, CA ebedyah AT elite.net
Help for the Hurting Christian
http://www.elite.net/~ebedyah/PastorsHomePage.htm
Church Site http://www.elite.net/~ebedyah/FirstChristianHomePage.htm





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Subject: Re: software Bible study
From: B Rocine <596547 AT ican.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:44:48 -0400
X-Message-Number: 2


B-Haverim,

Someone mentioned software capability for doing mixed language searches.
Would this be the ability to search specifically for all the times a root,
let's say PQD, is translated into English, let's say *visit*?  Is there
software that can do such a thing? My Bibleworks 3.1 cannot.

Now here's a wish I would like to pass onto our computer text-taggers Dale
Wheeler, Kirk Lowery, et al.:  Tag the boundaries of clauses.  I know the
definition of clause may need to be pinned down--so define the clause the
way you want to: I'll live with it! :-)   But it wonuld be so enormously
beneficial to be able to search, for instance,  for clause-initial qatal or
yiqtol. As it is, a string-search like noun-participle or participle-noun
will not only give all such strings *within* a single clause but also gives
hits when the string happens to *span two clauses*.  It would be great if
the computer would weed-out the unwanted, clause-spanning hits. 

While I'm at it, another wish:   Tag the boundary between narration and
quoted speech.  How beneficial!  The resulting research would make it seem
like we're learning Hebrew all over again.

Shalom,
Bryan
B. M. Rocine
Associate Pastor
Church of the Living Word
6101 Court St. Rd.
Syracuse, NY 13206

work phone: 315-437-6744
home phone: 315-479-8267



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Subject: re: veil
From: B Rocine <596547 AT ican.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:45:12 -0400
X-Message-Number: 3

Dear Judith,

I would like to comment on the inadequacy of the translation of _Paroket_ as
"veil."  It would be better translated "barrier."  _Paroket_ is used
exclusively for the barrier which was placed between the holy place and the
holy of holies of both the tabernacle(Exo 26:33) and the Temple(2 Chr 3:14).
We see that the _Paroket_ was fabric and that it would hang from clasps like
the other curtains, and so we may deduce correctly that it was indeed a
curtain or veil.  However, to render it "veil" is to paraphrase the word
rather than translate it.  The root PRK means to be harsh and severe.  It's
a cognate of an Assyrian root meaning to bar or shut off.  In addition, the
purpose of this particular curtain is distinguished from all other curtains
by the exclusive use of _Paroket_ and the exclusive function of the barrier.
It bars the human race from a face-to-face communion with the Lord.  It
symbolizes the harsh judgment of separation from God that is upon us all due
to our sinfulness.

LEST you think I am arguing that we should honor etymology over context in
our translation, let me explain.  My thoughts on _Paroket_ prefer neither
etymology nor context.  The etymology(to be harsh, severe) is consistent
with the context(a barrier between people and the Lord).  In fact, the
context *implies* the etymology.  I believe it is good translatyion and
exegesis carry etymology and context together, and there is no reason why we
can't with _Paroket_.

LEST you think I am merely arguing for a more literal translation than
"veil," let me explain that, too.  There is nothing more or less literal in
either "veil" or "barrier."  "Barrier" is more precise, not more literal.  I
would not always argue for a strictly literal translation(it would depend on
the target audiernce).  As you have said, there are a number of Heb words
translated "veil."  But there is one dedicated Heb word for this particular
hanging, so I think it should be translated with a more dedicated word.  We
often see _Paroket_ used in construct with _masak_("covering") as in Exo
35:12 which I translate "the concealing barrier".  A veil, by definition
covers or conceals.  A barrier?  Not necessarily.  For the concept "veil" to
be in construct relationship with the concept "conceal" is somewhat
tautological and so doesn't make the best sense.  In fact several English
translations of Exo 35:12 sound a bit goofy, IMO.  I don't think the Hebrew
sounded goofy to a native speaker. 

Shalom,
Bryan

At 10:51 AM 7/8/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I invite discussion on the Hebrew words that have been translated 
>to the English word "veil" and the appropriateness of that 
>translation.  My list so far include (and please forgive any 
>misspelling or vowel errors): mitpachath; mecukkah; macveh (sawan); 
>pahroketh; tsaiyph (tzaan); radiyd; raalah; and cithrah. 



B. M. Rocine
Associate Pastor
Church of the Living Word
6101 Court St. Rd.
Syracuse, NY 13206

work phone: 315-437-6744
home phone: 315-479-8267



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: software Bible study
From: "David Humpal" <ebedyah AT elite.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:35:14 -0700
X-Message-Number: 4

Bryan writes, "Someone mentioned software capability for doing mixed
language searches.  Would this be the ability to search specifically for all
the times a root, let's say PQD, is translated into English, let's say
*visit*?  Is there software that can do such a thing? My Bibleworks 3.1
cannot."

Neither can BibleWorks 3.5.  When I need to look up specific English usage
based on the Hebrew, I use the Interlinear and Englishman's Concordance on
PC Study Bible.  It gives every use of that specific word in the King James
Version.  You then have to scroll down the list.  When you find a verse
you're interested in, you can click on the button which shows the Hebrew in
the Interlinear.  And then just Ctrl + F6 and you're back at the concordance
listing to continue looking.

You have to use the Interlinear to get the Strong's number since that's what
keys the Englishman's Concordance.  Of course, it is not Even-Shoshan.  It
has the limitations of the printed Englishman's Concordance, but it's a
great time saver.  PC Study Bible comes with Hebrew and Greek texts, but
you'll seldom use them if you have BibleWorks.

The reason I own PC Study Bible is they keep coming out with complete and
unabridged commentaries from some of my favorite older authors.  So far they
have Barnes, Adam Clarke, Jamison-Fausset-Brown, International Standard
Bible Encyclopedia, Matthew Henry's Commentary, Unger's Bible Dictionary, as
well as Robertson's, Vine's, and Vincent's.  Although I have all of these
works except one in my library (you remember -- books?), it sure is a lot
quicker for a busy pastor researching and pasting with the PC software.

Dave Humpal, First Christian Church, Merced, CA ebedyah AT elite.net
Help for the Hurting Christian
http://www.elite.net/~ebedyah/PastorsHomePage.htm
Church Site http://www.elite.net/~ebedyah/FirstChristianHomePage.htm











----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: BHS Accents
From: Kelly McGrew <kmcgrew AT sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 13:49:51 -0700
X-Message-Number: 5

        I don't know about "gazillions" of accents, but the trup (or 
cantillation)
marks are clearly evident in the MacBible product from Zondervan.  Macs can
generally be had pretty cheap right now, so pick one up to run your program
on.  It's not that expensive as I recall either.

        Alternatively, you could get the Soncino Classics Collection from 
Davka
for $589.  It includes the complete Tanach, Talmud, Midrash Rabbah, and
Zohar, in both Hebrew/Aramaic and English.  For more information see:

        http://www.davka.com/socoll.html

If you want just the Bible you can get it for $49.  See:

        http://www.davka.com/cdbible.html

Enjoy!


>From: DrJDPrice AT aol.com
>MMDF-Warning:  Parse error in original version of preceding line at
mail.virginia.edu
>Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:29:30 EDT
>To: b-hebrew AT virginia.edu
>Subject: Re: BHS accents
>X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38
>
>Brian Rush asked:
><<Subject: Re: software bible study
>
><<Along these lines, can anyone tell me which bible software
>packages have a Hebrew text which includes all of the
>gazillions of accents and other markings in my hardcopy BHS?
>(I don't just mean the vowel pointings, which all the good programs
>have.)
>I haven't spent much time actually using the programs, but
>the flyers and literature I've looked at don't mention the markings. Even
>Hermeneutika doesn't seem to have the markings, but again,
>that's only by looking at many pictures in several of
>their brochures. >>
>
>I know of no software that includes the accents in their Hebrew 
>text. You may get an independent copy of the BHS text for strictly 
>private research purposes from Westminster Theological Seminary. 
>It contains the BHS text in transliterated form, with vowelpoints and 
>accents. Contact Alan Groves at alangroves AT mindspring.com.
>There is a fee.
>James D. Price
>



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