[TypicalGirls] Riot Grrrl book

unmannedmission at gmail.com unmannedmission at gmail.com
Sat Sep 15 13:36:36 EDT 2007

I doubt that anyone in the early 90's would have had the foresight to know
that 10 years down the road there would be a universal method for sharing
and distributing zines etc. (ie the internet). It's a tough thing because on
the one side I want to say "it was put out into the world... if it wasn't
produced to generate a response amongst it's readers regardless of who they
are/were... then why put out a zine in the first place?" I also completely
understand that people grow up, change, and make new realizations in their
lives. I think the important part is to realize that times change and with
that SHOULD come new versions of old ideas, specifically if the original
ideas were centered around social issues that are still in existence today.
You can't fight battles with outdated weapons, especially when your "enemy"
is progressing with you. I'm WAY behind the idea that a newer, different
version of what happened with riot grrrl in it's day is overdue for today's
youth culture. For that matter, looking at 60's counterculture we saw a
movement against the Vietnam War... and today we've had small occurrences of
similar efforts (bands against bush, etc) but maybe the problem is that the
tactics haven't changed with the social climate? It seems that despite the
extent that the 60's have been cataloged, people are still rehashing the
same, or similar methods. Maybe this here internet thing is the new tool and
we haven't discovered its full purpose yet?

On 9/14/07, mike at appelstein.com <mike at appelstein.com> wrote:
> All good points.  And I wasn't really thinking about the 50-copy
> photocopy zines, anyway; it's totally understandable that the authors
> would be uncomfortable seeing them anthologized or uploaded.  I'm
> thinking more about the actual music that came out during that era -
> the cassettes, 7-inches and LPs.  It seems to me that the songs and
> live shows were generally meant for larger audiences than the zines.
> It seems a shame to deprive today's youth of Viva Knieval, Heavens To
> Betsy's "Direction" single or the _A Wonderful Treat_ cassette, for
> instance.
> (And no offense taken on the Anne Frank comparison. :))
> -Mike
> Quoting Kelsey Guntharp <kbguntha at hotmail.com>:
> > I totally understand where you and Layla are coming from. I think that
> > being there in the beginning of something that was blown up and out and
> > under lends an attachment that would definitely lead to a desire for
> > privacy and personal memories.
> > On the other hand I also feel like there is no use in fighting the
> > inevitable result of this technologically advanced uh, situation. All
> > we can really do is try and be now. show love. play music...
> > i think it's great that we have such a wide variety of "news" outlets
> > available to us. personal, published, music, writing, art... even
> > medical. it's amazing and inspiring. and maybe a bit scary on many
> > levels... and yes, it seems like maybe people are getting caught up in
> > the ephemera. but shit! this is the first time we can actually FIND
> > some ephemera! and who knows what great directions this might take
> > future generations. Man, i know this is a por comparison, but Anne
> > Frank's Diary was meant for HER eyes only. but look what good it has
> > done. especially with the last generations of living witnesses dying.
> > anyway. i think the future of documentation is so interesting and
> > valuable. and scary. did i say that already? but inevitable!
> >
> > ~Kelsey
> >
> >> From: "Tobi Vail" <tobivail at gmail.com>
> >> Reply-To: "Typical Girls: Women in Punk/Post-Punk/Underground Music
> >>  (Circa  1975-1980s)" <typicalgirls at lists.ibiblio.org>
> >> To: "Typical Girls: Women in Punk/Post-Punk/Underground Music
> >> (Circa  1975-1980s)" <typicalgirls at lists.ibiblio.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [TypicalGirls] Riot Grrrl book
> >> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:05:27 -0700
> >>
> >> well,,,there is a difference in perspective....if you made something
> >> when you were 18 with the intent of 5 people reading it, would you
> >> want it on the internet when you are 38? not necsesarily...i'm not
> >> opposed to having some of my old work out there, i'm intending to make
> >> it available on my own terms, but i have no interest in making a
> >> fanzine 'available for download'...to me, fanzines are all about
> >> context....those zines were not made for everyone...they were made in
> >> a community for a community and often that was a community of less
> >> than 20 people...i don't find that any more elitist than going over to
> >> someone's house for dinner rather than having a banquet. obviously the
> >> conversations you have with your friends over dinner are going to be
> >> different than a speech you'd give at an awards ceremony...sorry if
> >> this is warped by my personal persepctive/neurosis, but there you have
> >> it...i also love ephermal art and view fanzines in the same way...
> >>
> >> the thing about saying that young people missed out because they were
> >> young doesn't hold up because anyone can make a fanzine. those zines
> >> aren't any better than anything anyone could make right now. that is
> >> why the fanzine is a great art form. it's there for the taking...
> >>
> >> time to get in the van! nice to see everyone in the bay area...hi
> layla!
> >>
> >> x
> >> tobi
> >>
> >> ps there is actually an overabundance of academic writing on riot
> >> grrl, but some of it is good, just search online or on jstor or
> >> something like that and you'll get overwhelmed. it's not like people
> >> haven't archived it and analyzed it to death already....what needs to
> >> happen is another movement, not more documentation, well,,,,that's
> >> more than my two cents, but there you have it
> >>
> >> On 9/14/07, mike at appelstein.com <mike at appelstein.com> wrote:
> >>> I understand what you're saying, and I definitely understand the
> >>> tendency to look at the past through rose-colored glasses.  But at the
> >>> same time, why should latecomers miss out on inspiring
> >>> art/music/writing just because they happened to be too young, or just
> >>> otherwise occupied, the first time?  I don't think there's anything
> >>> wrong with exploring the past, especially if it helps inspire the
> >>> future.  Perhaps a balance of past and present works best.
> >>>
> >>> -Mike
> >>> mike at appelstein.com
> >>> http://djearlybird.blogspot.com
> >>> http://www.youngmarblegiants.com
> >>>
> >>> Quoting Layla Gibbon <lpgibbon at yahoo.com>:
> >>>
> >>> > One of the things I like about punk culture is that it
> >>> > is transient. It kind of annoys me that suddenly now
> >>> > everyone is so reverent towards the ephemera, people
> >>> > bidding on ebay for fanzines and demos that would have
> >>> > disappeared in previous generations.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
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