[pchealth] [permaculture] Attn: Paul Wheaton Re: How to Feed 9 Billion People

venaurafarm venaurafarm at bellsouth.net
Sun Dec 2 21:19:21 EST 2012

On 12/2/2012 12:53 PM, paul wheaton wrote:

>> LL: Sysops talked shop and had a great old time.
> And this is part of what I am trying to do with permies.  Get
> permaculture folks to talk shop.  Like what I used to experience on
> good BBSs or CompuServe.  Not this troll infested stuff that seems so
> popular today.

Exactly. Those who need permaculture will be there to learn and share, 
not troll for attention.

> Back to the feeding 9 billion people thing ....
> I was talking to Jocelyn this morning about how one goes about
> changing the world.    So we focused on a group of people that we know
> of.  And we mentally picked out a subset:  they have at least $300,000
> in their portfolio;  they drive a mercedes or similar vehicle; they
> are nearing retirement, or retired;   then they get cancer or some
> other terminal illness.  Jocelyn is frustrated because these people
> are adamant that they cannot afford organic food.  Further, Jocelyn
> has pointed out that they will probably not consider organic food or
> alternative treatments - but will subject themselves to "moderm
> medicine".

Modern medicine is very good these days. Ex.: improvement in safety and 
effectiveness of vaccinations, stem cell research and growing new 
organs, bionics and adoption of alternative practices such as guided 
imagery, mindfullness, homeopathy, naturopathy, herbal medicine, food as 
medicine, TCM, Ayurveda, many miraculous procedures, surgeries, 
therapies, pharmaceuticals (ask me how much I like asthma medications 
though I use herbs, food, water, vitamins and homeopathic preps too) and 

The best cure is prevention. Start early, in your teens, but it is never 
too late. Diabetes can be reversed, heart problems also.

> My position is:  where did their cancer come from?
> But the real question is:  how to persuade them.  I think 2% might be
> persuaded by eminent death and willing to consider anything.  But I

You simply need to get their full attention and convince them to start
taking care of their bodies and their minds, from the ground up, 
bootstrap method. Boot up on raw foods for starters, simple diets.
I have worked hard to post quality, timeless diet and nutrition info
to this list. Search through my posts and copy the data into your 
podcasts or posts to permies. Good reason to always identify the subject 
you are writing on, in the header, when posting to a forum.
Raw foods, traditional Japanese macrobiotic diet, food combining for 
maximum health through maximum nutrition through maximum digestion.
Herbs, fruitarianism, salads, nuts, seeds, beans, grains, raw veganism.
Limit salt, sugar, oil, fat. Grass fed red and white meat OK if your 
body can handle it. Look at the dirt-blood type relationship; "One Man's 
Meat Is Another Man's Poison" saved me from a nearly year long 
respiratory infection, discovered my allergic reaction to certain food 
types, wheat and cow dairy. Everybody is different. Fall back and 
regroup and pursue an ultra simple diet to make a start toward better 
health. Big negatives: overeating, salt, sugars, bad types of fat, 
alcohol, tobacco and recreational drugs (a certain one recently 
legalized some places can help lead the way to good health and avoidance 
of negative dietary and behaviorial habits, in some cases permanently 
steer people away from alcohol and tobacco and in some cases cure tem of 
such acquired damaging habits.

You have to get their attention and tell them to take their health and 
well being seriously. Ultimately only they can do this. They need this 
awareness to avoid prolongued journeys down negative health and 
lifestyle paths.

This is just a drop in the bucket but my Permaculturist Health list
might be a good place to congregate and share information and 
experiences. I have finally begun using it myself. Now I post anything 
useful I run across including cool recipes.

Permaculturist Health is a forum for discussion and information exchange 
on a wide range of health and nutrition issues faced by those involved 
in any way with the global permaculture movement.
There has been a ton of news in the past year connecting health of the 
digestive tract and nutrition to health of your mind, i.e. a big 
connection between the two.

Maybe you should start  similar group of forums at Permies.

> want to persuade 60% or more.  And I think the trick is not to send
> them a four color brochure about alternatives, but to send them
> hundreds of tiny tidbits of information spread out over many years so
> that when the day that comes that they have cancer, then 60% or more
> are open to alternatives rather than 2%.

I think you are right on target with this, one hundred percent. Right on.

> Then comes the hard work.  You have to come up with a tidbit and a
> means to get that to these people.   Generally the tidbit is ten hours

Why 10 hours? need for peer review, double blind studies, legal 
disclaimers? Just find good info, edit it and send it out, rock on.

> of work.  Getting it to them is a hundred hours of work.

Depends on the channels you choose for this. Here, Permies, other lists, 
blogs, forums. What did you have in mind?

> And it is the same thing for changing our food streams.  Hundreds of
> tidbits of information.

Just wean people from junk, fast and most packaged food, non organic 
unless you know the source or it is certified naturally grown, off 
alcohol, tobacco, drugs, contact with environmental pollutants and 
toxins, stop taking risks with your health, eat a simple spartan diet
but one providing maximum nutritional benefit. Establish long term 
strategies involving diet and exercise, rest, meditation and reflection,
doing things that are rewarding and fun; adopt a positive attitude and 
forge ahead relentless. Get into regular permanent exercise routines, 
simple ones for starters, walking, sit ups, pull ups, push ups, 
gardening, landscaping, homestead projects. Take on challenging pursuits 
and projects. Build a permaculture homestead whether it is in an 
apartment with lettuce in pots on the windowsill or implementing a whole 
homestead permaculture system on twenty acres or a hundred or a small 
urban home on a postage stamp lot. There's lots to say about this 
subject. I will X-post this to the pc health list in case anyone there 
is interested and wants to follow up.
> And getting the tidbits to the brains is ten times harder than
> creating the tidbits.

That is the challenge. Where there is a need they will find a way. 
Better sooner than later too. All things are possible.


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