[nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 119, Issue 22

Steven C filtertitle at aol.com
Tue Dec 25 12:35:07 EST 2012


How about the new Italian 'Black Star' cherry? Anyone?

SC

On Dec 25, 2012, at 12:00 PM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re:  Black Tartarian cherry (Scott Smith)
>   2.  Mulching blueberries (Jim Fruth)
>   3. Re:  mulching blueberries with woodchips (Michael Dossett)
>   4. Re:  Mulching blueberries (david liezen)
>   5.  Pruning advice? (Jay Cutts)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:07:01 -0500
> From: Scott Smith <scott at cs.jhu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Black Tartarian cherry
> To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <A186818F-E328-4460-B7FB-2E756B06E6FD at cs.jhu.edu>
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> 
> Steve, I haven't gotten much fruit off mine but it looks to be a reasonable cherry.  No cracking and good flavor.  Productivity and rotting propensity is to be determined on it.
> 
> Scott z7 MD
> 
> On Dec 19, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Steven Covacci <filtertitle at aol.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Is sweet cherry cv. 'Black Tartarian' worth growing on the northeastern coast: NJ?  Besides bird-pressure(?)
>> Thanks,
>> Steve; NJ
>> 
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:04:51 -0600
> From: "Jim Fruth" <jimfruth at charter.net>
> Subject: [nafex] Mulching blueberries
> To: <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
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>    reply-type=original
> 
>    My blueberries are planted in silt-fence fabric that I got from a road 
> construction site.  It does the mulching job even better that the pine 
> needle mulch that I used to use.  Best of all, it doesn't need replacing.
> 
> Jim Fruth
> Pequot Lakes, MN 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 10:41:44 -0800 (PST)
> From: Michael Dossett <phainopepla at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [nafex] mulching blueberries with woodchips
> To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>    <1356374504.50586.YahooMailNeo at web142301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
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> 
> Alan,
> ?
> Telling the difference between a chlorosis derived from excessive pH and one caused by poor drainage is actually fairly straight forward.? A combination of leaf tissue nutrient analysis and soil pH testing, in this case, was enough to confirm what was going on and verified the site history.? Overall, leaf tissue nutrient analysis is a great way to monitor what is going on?and tells you far more than a simple soil test for nutrient analysis.
> ?
> I noticed two things about your links to land grant university guidelines about wood chips that are worth pointing out.? One is that they are for the upper Midwest and the SE.? I already mentioned that pine-bark substrates and mulches were the rule of thumb for production in the SE.? This fits very well with their production systems and conditions.? The other thing I noticed?about your links is that the actual guidelines (not the project report from the grant, which only compared woodchips to no mulch and did not compare to sawdust nor did it give actual guidelines) also recommended sawdust.? If you read my email, I noted that in the Pacific Northwest, the conventional treatment is sawdust, with or without compost underneath.? I'm not saying that woodchips won't work, but if you read what I wrote, where wood chips or hog fuel were used in side-by-side treatments under the same growing conditions as compared to sawdust with and without compost,
> sawdust performed better, therefor I would not recommend wood chips in this area.? This is based on observations from grower's experimenting on their own, as well as grower-managed replicated research plots and university-managed trials. The links you provided are not at all contradictory to the argument I was making, but don't provide enough information for people to decide which of these was better, only that either can be used as a mulch and that wood chips is better than no mulch at all.? Aside from potential differences in the types of wood and trees that chips may come from, wood chips and sawdust break-down differently and do different things for the soil and at different rates.? They tie-up nitrogen differently so that fertilization regimes will have to be adjusted, they need to be replenished at different rates, they alter C/N ratio of the soil differently, and in many areas where incorporation of sawdust is recommended, incorporating wood
> chips would also change porosity and drainage differently in addition to magnifying the effects already mentioned.? These all go into adjusting the production system, rather than merely one aspect and are likely to change with different growing climates.
> ?
> Oregon State University currently has a project for organic blueberry production using weed mat as a weed control.? This is in various combinations with sawdust and compost mulches on their own as well, as above and below the weed mat.? One thing that has come out of the preliminary results, so far, is an effect on soil temperature and canopy temperature that is changing the rate of water use in the plants and also a change in the rate of loss of soil organic matter.? Not to mention the fact that voles loved the weed mat and the researchers found the need to bait under the mat to control them.? This is the sort of project that will be able to provide real recomendations for organic blueberry production down the road as it takes into account all aspects of the production system including fertility, irrigation, and soil management in addition to growth and yield.
> ?
> Michael?
> 
> Michael Dossett
> Mission, British Columbia
> www.Mdossettphoto.com
> phainopepla at yahoo.com
> 
> From: Alan Haigh <alandhaigh at gmail.com>
> To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org 
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 1:17 PM
> Subject: [nafex] mulching blueberries with woodchips
> 
> Michael, how can you tell the difference from a chlorosis derived from
> excessive pH from one caused by poor drainage?.? I'm a little suspicious
> that those low points may have been like low points in many fields-
> possessing poor drainage.? Of course this is an obvious observation that
> was probably explored.
> 
> Here in the northeast woodchips are often used to mulch blueberries in home
> orchard settings, which is all I'm knowledgeable about and I fail to see
> why they should ever create problems- relatives like rhododendrons are
> routinely mulched with shredded wood as well and these plants thrive under
> this treatment at scores of estates I've seen. .? The only trouble I've
> had? with shredded wood is that it sometimes mats up and excludes rain
> water- it just runs off the surface.
> 
> I don't completely trust the kind of anecdotal examples you supply (not
> that I'm not offering the same thing with much smaller scale examples).
> I'd need a lot more info about how mulch was applied and what the weather
> and soil issues were- actually I'd need to see the site myself to be
> satisfied.? Always the problem with contradicting anecdotes.
> 
> Here are several mostly landgrant university guidlines that do recommend
> mulching blueberries with woodchips.? I'd be interested in any research
> based info you have on the affects of mulching blueberries with woodchips
> as I couldn't find any actual research on the subject.
> 
> http://mysare.sare.org/mySARE/ProjectReport.aspx?do=viewRept&pn=FNC97-193&y=1998&t=1
> 
> http://mysare.sare.org/mySARE/ProjectReport.aspx?do=viewRept&pn=FNC97-193&y=1998&t=1
> 
> http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/hil/hil-8207.html
> 
> http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews/2001/3-23-2001/blueberries.html
> 
> 
>> 
>> I have no doubt that what you say about humic acid production and mulching
> blueberries may be true, but there are a lot of >variables at play, such as
> what kind of mulch, or what kind of wood chips, and where the trees grew
> etc.? Just as there are exceptions to every rule, there are circumstances
> in which blueberries can be successfully grown in soils with a pH range
> higher than the 4.5-5.5 typically recommended; however, as a general
> guideline, most people will have the best shot at success if they follow
> this.? I have been to literally hundreds of different blueberry operations
> over the years, both in the NW and elsewhere?(there's more than 30,000
> acres in blueberry production within a 45 minute drive of my house) and the
> one thing I can say is that I absolutely cannot recommend wood chips as a
> mulch for blueberries.? While some people may have success with it
> elsewhere, in this area, every single field I've seen where they have
> mulched with wood
> chips or hog fuel, has underperformed, often times in comparison with the
> same variety being grown by the same person just a few rows away with
> conventional treatments of compost and sawdust.? As I've said, there are
> always exceptions.? In Georgia and Florida, most of the commercial
> blueberry production takes place in pine bark substrate, or with
> incorporated pine bark in the soil.? They have developed a system where
> this works for them, although they still have to acidify the soil.? In fact
> one very large blueberry farm I visited in Florida last month was growing
> primarily in a pine bark incorporated and mulched system with sulfuric acid
> in the water to help acidify, and they still had iron deficiency in some
> low spots in their fields.? It turns out that these spots were where there
> were limestone tailings near the surface that had been left there decades
> before, and they just couldn't get the soil and water acid enough in these
> places to avoid
> nutrient problems.
> ?
> Every site is different and not all wood chips or other materials are the
> same, and different cultivars certainly have a range of tolerances for
> differing soil conditions and production practices.? I encourage people to
> try to get their conditions as close to what the recommendations are as a
> start, because I believe this will be their best chance for success.?
> Having said that, sometimes you have to improvise and experiment to find
> another solution, and I encourage people to do that too.
> ?
> Michael
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:13:42 +0000
> From: david liezen <chandos49 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Mulching blueberries
> To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY174-W237227192BD5B3AB937434BE3B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> Jim,
> I so appreciate your comments, along with the thoughtful missives from Michael Dossett. Keeping blueberries in my back yard is far simpler, it seems, than in many other areas of our fair land.?
> 
> I just added sphagnum (peat) moss to shift things a bit to acid and provide some organic material to the bare sand before planting the li'l guys, soaked 'em well every week or so, depending on the weather, and waited for growth. At the end of the first season, I mulched with shavings taken out of the duck shed. Have done that only once so far. A buddy, also in NAFEX, saw them and exclaimed his aren't doing as well. His soil is more clay, from what I've seen, and I think your observations could be of help for his hope to grow blueberries.
> ?
> My major concern was keeping the ducks from eating the plants down to the ground! That happened last July when a barrier got overturned a month after planting Patriot. It recovered, but I fear the newer growth may not be tough enough to handle winter. It's supposed to be quite hardy. Here's hopin'.
> 
> A Question: Several times I've seen advice to avoid fertilizing blueberries - they can be overwhelmed, apparently, chemically "burned" I suppose, which is why duck droppings can be such a boon. What do you advise in encouraging growth and fruit for blueberries?
> 
> Thanks, and Merry Christmas,
> 
> Dave Liezen
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: jimfruth at charter.net
>> To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:04:51 -0600
>> Subject: [nafex] Mulching blueberries
>> 
>> My blueberries are planted in silt-fence fabric that I got from a road
>> construction site. It does the mulching job even better that the pine
>> needle mulch that I used to use. Best of all, it doesn't need replacing.
>> 
>> Jim Fruth
>> Pequot Lakes, MN
>> 
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>                         
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 14:05:59 -0700
> From: Jay Cutts <orders at cuttsreviews.com>
> Subject: [nafex] Pruning advice?
> To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <50D8C3B7.4080508 at cuttsreviews.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> I've to an Illinois Everbearing mulberry that is about 10 feet tall now. 
> It is a single stem but has grown in a very bush way, with several 
> branches close to the ground that are very vigorous, often growing 
> nearly as tall as the leader. I have had trouble even getting the tree 
> to grow up from the leader because these lower branches have been more 
> vigorous.
> 
> One advantage of having low hanging branches is that the fruit is easy 
> to get to. However, I probably need to train it up as a regular tree and 
> figure that it should branch until about 3 or 4 feet off the ground. I 
> assume that as the tree gets mature, it will eventually shade out the 
> bottom-most branches.
> 
> So here's my concern. I just sawed off the very lowest branch, which was 
> only about 6 inches off the ground and constituted a good quarter of the 
> bulk of the tree. There is another major branch at about 8 inches above 
> the ground and a third at about 18 to 20 inches or so. After that, the 
> next branch is about 3 feet, which I think may be acceptable.
> 
> So I've cut off the lowest branch - taking a huge chunk of the tree with 
> it. Should I cut off the other two lower branches now, which result in 
> removing over half of the tree? Or should I leave them temporarily, 
> letting them grow during this next season and maybe cutting off the 
> bottom-most one next year, and the third one the year after?
> 
> I'm asking myself what is wrong with leaving it the way it is. For one 
> thing, the lower branches just put on most of the growth and the tree 
> doesn't seem to grow up from the leader that much. For another, it 
> doesn't LOOK like a tree! It's just a huge bushy thing and it seems like 
> eventually those lower branches will have to go.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jay
> 
> Jay Cutts
> Director, Cutts Graduate Reviews
> Lead Author, Barron's MCAT Prep Book
> Lead Author, Barron's LSAT Prep Book (2013)
> (505) 281-0684
> 10 am to 10 pm Mountain Time, 7 days
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> 
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> End of nafex Digest, Vol 119, Issue 22
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