[NAFEX] realism when looking at inputs

Kevin Moore aleguy33 at yahoo.com
Thu Jun 18 18:08:32 EDT 2009

Actually the mass transit system of San Francisco comes very close. BART (the subway) electric buses and light rail all run most of the city's mass transit. They still had a few ICE buses the last time I was there, but it's a lot better than the transit in most places. Technically San Francisco owns all the water and power from the Hetch Hetchy dam in Yosemite National Park. If the reality matched the legal fiction, then all their electric mass transit would in fact be run by renewable energy.

From: "abb7 at Lehigh.EDU" <abb7 at Lehigh.EDU>
To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:59:41 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] realism when looking at inputs

> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:10:42 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Kevin Moore <aleguy33 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] realism when looking at inputs

> Sorry, fluffy, I can't let this one slide. Mass transit is better  
> for the >environment when done right. Meaning electric trains and  
> buses fueled by >renewable energy.

That would be an excellent system...does it exist anywhere?  Certainly  
the huge majority, if not all, mass transit systems have not been  
"done right" by your criteria.  I hope Fluffy corrects me if I'm  
wrong, but I think you're illustrating his point...the theoretical  
ideal model does not really match reality.  Certainly he was  
criticizing existing mass transport systems.

> Try permaculture. A method of farming/gardening that is more  
> productive and >uses >few to no outside inputs. a method that is  
> nearly always more wholesome >than >what organic has become under  
> the auspices of the USDA. Its early emphasis >was >on tree crops but  
> now encompasses also grain and aquaculture. (Not to >mention >city  
> design, banking, etc.) The same principles apply to all these, and  
> >yes it >is truly sustainable.

Although there is a lot of overlap, I find the permaculture approach  
much more sensible than the "organic" approach.


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