[NAFEX] nafex Digest, Vol 77, Issue 83

Richard MURPHY murphman108 at msn.com
Mon Jun 15 18:03:22 EDT 2009


I should ask around.... maybe it was frost.
Thanks

m

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org> 
  To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org> 
  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:56 PM
  Subject: nafex Digest, Vol 77, Issue 83


  Send nafex mailing list submissions to
  nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>

  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
  http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex<http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex>
  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
  nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org>

  You can reach the person managing the list at
  nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org>

  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
  than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..."


  Today's Topics:

     1. no apples (Jacquelyn Kuehn)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  Message: 1
  Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:28:15 -0400
  From: Jacquelyn Kuehn <jakuehn at verizon.net<mailto:jakuehn at verizon.net>>
  Subject: [NAFEX] no apples
  To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
  Message-ID: <67fbf90d601d852b10595a85a38ca6dd at verizon.net<mailto:67fbf90d601d852b10595a85a38ca6dd at verizon.net>>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

  For what it's worth, it could be something as simple as frost. We had a  
  severe frost in our area mid-May, and that did in a lot of apple crops.  
  Didn't seem to affect the pears, though.
  Jacquelyn A. Kuehn
  Musician, writer
  http://www.pennsacreskitchen.net<http://www.pennsacreskitchen.net/>
  www.wmugradio.org<http://www.wmugradio.org/>
  11 AM-12:30 PM M-F (Eastern)



  On Jun 15, 2009, at 10:48 AM, nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:

  > Send nafex mailing list submissions to
  > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
  >
  > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
  > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex<http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex>
  > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
  > nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org>
  >
  > You can reach the person managing the list at
  > nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex-owner at lists.ibiblio.org>
  >
  > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
  > than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..."
  >
  >
  > Today's Topics:
  >
  >    1. Re: Honeyberry sweetness (sourness) (Lon J. Rombough)
  >    2. No apples this year (Richard MURPHY)
  >    3. Bill's thoughful commentary (fuwa fuwa usagi)
  >    4. Re: Carbaryl/Sevin [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] (Steve)
  >    5. Re: Fruit trees under powerlines (William C. Garthright)
  >    6. Re: No apples this year (William C. Garthright)
  >    7. How to revive my apple tree (if possible) (Caren Kirk)
  >    8. Re: chemical vs organic (Kevin Moore)
  >
  >
  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  >
  > Message: 1
  > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:49:11 -0700
  > From: "Lon J. Rombough" <lonrom at hevanet.com<mailto:lonrom at hevanet.com>>
  > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Honeyberry sweetness (sourness)
  > To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>>
  > Message-ID: <05482404034d13f6091c20b6b605371e at hevanet.com<mailto:05482404034d13f6091c20b6b605371e at hevanet.com>>
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
  >
  > In this area, honeyberries (the Russian edible honeysuckle) blooms in
  > early to mid February.  Haskap blooms as much as two months later.
  > -Lon Rombough
  > NEW grape pruning video: http://www.bunchgrapes.com/dvd.html<http://www.bunchgrapes.com/dvd.html> View a
  > short, low resolution clip here:
  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q58zFY0B1M<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q58zFY0B1M>
  > Grapes, writing, consulting, my book, The Grape Grower, at
  > http://www.bunchgrapes.com<http://www.bunchgrapes.com/>  Winner of the Garden Writers Association
  > "Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003.
  > A video about The Grape Grower :
  > http://cookingupastory.com/index.php/2008/04/18/the-grape-grower/<http://cookingupastory.com/index.php/2008/04/18/the-grape-grower/>
  > On Jun 14, 2009, at 6:25 PM, William C. Garthright wrote:
  >
  >
  >> As to ripening, Haskap ripens about with the earliest strawberries,
  >> sometimes a bit earlier. They bloom later, yes, but it's warmer when
  >> they do bloom which seems to speed development.
  >
  >
  > Oh, heck, that would be great, then. I don't know when the earliest
  > strawberries ripen, but mine start bearing in late May, and they're
  > easily the first fruit I get (besides rhubarb, if you consider that a
  > "fruit").
  >
  > But if they bloom "months after" honeyberries, and still ripen by May,
  > honeyberries must REALLY bloom early!
  > -------------- next part --------------
  > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
  > Name: not available
  > Type: text/enriched
  > Size: 1340 bytes
  > Desc: not available
  > Url :  
  > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/private/nafex/attachments/20090614/<http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/private/nafex/attachments/20090614/> 
  > d5d87e0e/attachment-0001.bin
  >
  > ------------------------------
  >
  > Message: 2
  > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:46:05 -0700
  > From: "Richard MURPHY" <murphman108 at msn.com<mailto:murphman108 at msn.com>>
  > Subject: [NAFEX] No apples this year
  > To: "nafex" <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>>
  > Message-ID: <BLU136-DS71539FB836C581E627EFDEC3E0 at phx.gbl<mailto:BLU136-DS71539FB836C581E627EFDEC3E0 at phx.gbl>>
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
  >
  > Holy Moly;
  >
  > Something went BAD WRONG.................
  >
  > Most of my apple trees have dropped their fruiting stems / future  
  > apples !
  >
  > They fall off when I touch them. I'm sure this is due to a WRONG SPRAY  
  > I DID.
  > Weather has been almost all rain this year...
  >
  > Permethrin, right after petal fall, along with Lime Sulfur and mixed  
  > with a little soap for surfactant.
  >
  > Then I saw, 'Don't use after petal fall' on Permethrin labels. Oh  
  > no.... I thought Sevin was the only thinner.
  > So who was it; the LS, Perm, or Soap ?? All the leaves are fine and  
  > growing strong. (I also did Round Up, in the rows of trees. 2% mix of  
  > 41% Glyph.)
  >
  > When I look this subject up, on the internet, there is never a  
  > CONCRETE REASON backed up with TEST DATA to support this statement. I  
  > hear 'un-clear' stories of mites... any connection? It looks too  
  > well-behaved / homogenous to be a BUG deal... is it?
  >
  > DO ANY OF YOU KNOW FOR SURE WHY PERMETHRIN IS BAD AFTER PETAL FALL  
  > ?????
  >
  > Me and my one apple per tree, thank you! I could hang myself...
  >
  > Every other crop is fine... Samdal Elderberries in zone 4 DIE BACK to  
  > the Ground annualy. Don't do it.
  >
  > Sambucus Canadensis, York and Nova kick ass. I'm bringing the Samdals  
  > down to Mass. to see if they grow.
  >
  > So, diversity of crops is very important, in case you massacre one,  
  > like I just did.
  >
  > Murph
  > -------------- next part --------------
  > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
  > URL:  
  > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/private/nafex/attachments/20090614/<http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/private/nafex/attachments/20090614/> 
  > f0fd36f0/attachment-0001.htm
  >
  > ------------------------------
  >
  > Message: 3
  > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:57:54 -0700
  > From: "fuwa fuwa usagi" <fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com<mailto:fuwafuwausagi at muchomail.com>>
  > Subject: [NAFEX] Bill's thoughful commentary
  > To: <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>>
  > Message-ID: <20090614205754.CCA798BB at resin11.mta.everyone.net<mailto:20090614205754.CCA798BB at resin11.mta.everyone.net>>
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
  >
  > Bill writes:
  >
  > Very interesting. But aren't you missing something? These things would
  > happen anyway. At least, I assume that you're not buying a newspaper
  > only to use as mulch? And your neighbors are going to do what they do,
  > whether you use the leaves or not. These really ARE free inputs, unless
  > you're driving to the neighbors to pick up the leaves.
  >
  >
  > My reply:
  >
  > You must not have a liberal tree hugging BBQ circuit in your area.   
  > The SouthPark episode on smug illustrates it well - LOL!
  >
  > Essentially to join this clique you must berate everyone who is not as  
  > concerned as you with the environment and claim that if only everyone  
  > did as you did global warming would be solved, famine would be  
  > eliminate, your breath would be mintier and the grass hoppers would  
  > chirp Kumbaya; of course this proposition ignores the fact that it is  
  > unsustainable.  In my area, a city of 160K the free wood chips are  
  > gone in in March...and to the best of my knowledge there are only 125  
  > or so serious gardeners in the area, and only 18 that I am aware of  
  > have gardens large enough you can can something off of.
  >
  > My point is if everyone attempted to garden as they or I do there  
  > would simply not be enough resources available.  Now that does not  
  > concern me, what concerns me is the attitude and the divorcement from  
  > reality.
  >
  > Understand my example was only my strawberry beds.  The truth is I use  
  > around 90 bags of chopped leaves a year plus all the compost I  
  > manufacture myself, and I burn weeds to salvage what I can from them.   
  > Not mention the amount of wood I scavenge to burn.
  >
  > tfb
  >
  > _____________________________________________________________
  > The Free Email with so much more!
  > =====> http://www.MuchoMail.com<http://www.muchomail.com/> <=====
  >
  >
  > ------------------------------
  >
  > Message: 4
  > Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:11:00 -0400
  > From: Steve <sdw12986 at aol.com<mailto:sdw12986 at aol.com>>
  > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Carbaryl/Sevin [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
  > To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>>
  > Message-ID: <4A35C9D4.5000200 at aol.com<mailto:4A35C9D4.5000200 at aol.com>>
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
  >
  >
  >
  > ADAMSON, Karl wrote:
  >> Hi Ya,
  >> I've killed young rootstocks by spraying them with Carbaryl.  If the
  >> tree is already stressed, you may end up worse off.
  >> I've no experience with partial sprays and their effect.
  >>
  >> Karl
  >
  > In that case, maybe it's just as well that it rained, unexpectedly,
  > right after I sprayed it. I think I'll give it up now, since it's
  > getting late in the season anyway. I'll see what drops and thin by hand
  > later in the season.
  >
  > Steve
  >
  >
  > ------------------------------
  >
  > Message: 5
  > Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:14:52 -0500
  > From: "William C. Garthright" <billg at inebraska.com<mailto:billg at inebraska.com>>
  > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Fruit trees under powerlines
  > To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>>
  > Message-ID: <4A36494C.1070606 at inebraska.com<mailto:4A36494C.1070606 at inebraska.com>>
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
  >
  >
  >> Next to the orchard is a field alternately planted in soybeans and
  >> corn. I've never been able to see an increase in height under the
  >> lines. I don't have access to harvest records therefore have no idea
  >> about production increase or decrease under the lines.
  >
  >
  > That's why I've always questioned this claim, too. Here in Nebraska,
  > transmission lines cross and border crop fields all over the place, but
  > I've never noticed any difference in the nearby plants. I don't know if
  > it's been scientifically studied, but there's no obvious difference,
  > that I could ever see.
  >
  > And farmers tend to be very unhappy about new transmission lines
  > crossing their land. If it actually boosted yields, you'd think they'd
  > welcome them (certainly along the edges of their fields). Well, there
  > are other considerations, too, no doubt.
  >
  > Bill
  > Lincoln, NE (zone 5)
  >
  > -- 
  > A study by researchers at the University of Utah proves what many  
  > people
  > have long suspected: Everyone talking on a cell phone, except you, is a
  > moron. - Dave Barry
  >
  >
  > ------------------------------
  >
  > Message: 6
  > Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:33:20 -0500
  > From: "William C. Garthright" <billg at inebraska.com<mailto:billg at inebraska.com>>
  > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] No apples this year
  > To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>>
  > Message-ID: <4A364DA0.7070002 at inebraska.com<mailto:4A364DA0.7070002 at inebraska.com>>
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
  >
  >
  >> Something went BAD WRONG.................
  >>
  >> Most of my apple trees have dropped their fruiting stems / future  
  >> apples !
  >
  >
  > Sorry to hear that, Murph. And it's particularly scary for me, because
  > I've got so many different kinds of fruit trees crowded together that
  > it's hard to avoid drift when I'm spraying (and there are very few
  > pesticides or fungicides rated for everything, it seems).
  >
  > I've got some permethrin (Bonide Borer-Miner Killer), but I don't
  > believe I've actually used it. Well, I have such a hard time finding
  > pesticides I can use, I tend to collect as big a variety as possible.
  > Yes, I see that it shouldn't be used on apples "after petal fall" (but
  > you certainly wouldn't use it during bloom, would you?). But oddly
  > enough, it's rated for pears in the summer.
  >
  > Not for apricots or plums, though, so it would be very hard for me to
  > spray this on *anything* without getting it on apples, plums, apricots,
  > or pluots.
  >
  > Anyway, thanks for the warning! I'm sorry to hear about your  
  > experience,
  > but you might have saved some of the rest of us from making that  
  > mistake.
  >
  > Bill
  > Lincoln, NE (zone 5)
  >
  > -- 
  > Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.
  > - Will Rogers
  >
  >
  > ------------------------------
  >
  > Message: 7
  > Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:40:46 -0400
  > From: Caren Kirk <quirky at videotron.ca<mailto:quirky at videotron.ca>>
  > Subject: [NAFEX] How to revive my apple tree (if possible)
  > To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>>
  > Message-ID: <C60521A8E1794315B8CEE04B9AD9CCE5 at Wanderer<mailto:C60521A8E1794315B8CEE04B9AD9CCE5 at Wanderer>>
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
  >
  > In a previous post I lamented at the state of my golden russet apple  
  > and reliance peach that I planted last year that did not leaf out.   
  > Well, I think the peach has really had it, seems brittle and can't  
  > find any green under the bark.  Probably should just get the  
  > inevitable over and done with and remove it and plant something else.  
  > RIP.
  >
  > However the apple, while having no leaves is still supple and if you  
  > scratch away the bark, it's green underneath.  Does this mean that  
  > there is still hope?  If so what can I do to regenerate it?
  >
  > Any suggestions welcome.
  >
  > Caren
  > Slightly depressed in Quebec
  > -------------- next part --------------
  > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
  > URL:  
  > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/private/nafex/attachments/20090615/<http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/private/nafex/attachments/20090615/> 
  > a78bd943/attachment-0001.htm
  >
  > ------------------------------
  >
  > Message: 8
  > Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:47:39 -0700 (PDT)
  > From: Kevin Moore <aleguy33 at yahoo.com<mailto:aleguy33 at yahoo.com>>
  > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] chemical vs organic
  > To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>>
  > Message-ID: <748094.8165.qm at web46016.mail.sp1.yahoo.com<mailto:748094.8165.qm at web46016.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>>
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
  >
  > Rock Phosphate should do as well as bone meal. I can't speak to the  
  > cost. If you have healthy humusy soil, you shouldn't need to apply it  
  > more than every three to five years at the most.
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > ________________________________
  > From: Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com<mailto:rharrison922 at yahoo.com>>
  > To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>>
  > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:34:36 PM
  > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] chemical vs organic
  >
  >
  > Stephen,
  >     Do you buy bone meal or use something else?
  >                                                Richard Harrison, NW FL
  >
  > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Stephen Sadler <Docshiva at Docshiva.org<mailto:Docshiva at Docshiva.org>> wrote:
  >
  >
  > From: Stephen Sadler <Docshiva at Docshiva.org<mailto:Docshiva at Docshiva.org>>
  > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] chemical vs organic
  > To: "'North American Fruit Explorers'" <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>>
  > Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 4:30 PM
  >
  >
  >
  > I agree about Donna?s letter!!
  >
  > Potatoes really do love that cottonseed meal.  I can get organic, but  
  > it?s very hard to find elsewhere.  Since you?re not certified, why not  
  > use it?  I?m comfortable with it vs. conventional chemicals.  I?m not  
  > certified either, but I?ve heard it mentioned that I might be  
  > certifiable?
  >
  > ~ Stephen
  >
  > From:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org  
  > [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Richard Harrison
  > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:38 AM
  > To: North American Fruit Explorers
  > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] chemical vs organic
  >
  > Donna,
  >      Thank you for this amazing article ! I thoroughly enjoyed it! I  
  > chuckled through most of it---mainly because it is SO true. You should  
  > be a journalist somewhere--telling it like it is!
  >      I think the first chuckle was when you said that Sevin is  
  > considered one of the 4 major food groups. I rolled on that one!  
  > There's SO much truth to that. I live in NW FL and understand  
  > you--loud and clear.
  >      As for the gulf between organic enthusiasts and chemical ones,  
  > there's an old saying that MAY have some application here--when you  
  > think about it long enough. The saying is "if you don't stand for  
  > something, you'll fall for anything". Many people can be VERY  
  > opinionated. I know, I'm one of them!
  >      I have lived on the chemical side for most of my life--of 57  
  > years. Last year I tried some cotttonseed meal on my sugarcane and  
  > decide to increase the rate to double. THIS YEAR it was affordable to  
  > buy versus chemical. Then I decided to try some cottonseed meal on my  
  > Irish potatoes--knowing that potatoes like a lot of Phosphorus, rather  
  > than Nitrogen(which the cottonseed meal is high in). Well we got some  
  > drenching rains!  The potatoes with chemical fertilizer has been dead  
  > and harvested for 2 1/2 weeks and it is just getting to be harvest  
  > time on the potatoes with cottonseed meal. The plants stayed green  
  > over 2 1/2 weeks longer!  The potatoes have better color(in the  
  > ground) too, than the chemically fertilized ones.
  >      So now, I'm gung-ho to try more cottonseed meal. I tell an  
  > organic friend about mu results and advise her on where she can  
  > purchase cottonseed meal and guess what response I get?  "Cottonseed  
  > meal ISN'T ORGANIC!"    I thought to myself, "that's crazy!" But she  
  > explains, "the cottonseed is probably BIOENGINEERED--( a no-no) and  
  > the cotton was probably sprayed with Roundup and pesticides!  The meal  
  > is CONTAMINATED.
  >      Probably needless to say, I will NEVER be an organic gardener.  
  > It's next to impossible to be an organic gardener---or certified  
  > organic these days, certainly not on a commercial scale. I had thought  
  > that I might try growing organic vegetables this Fall and sell them at  
  > the Farmers Market, but no, I can't even call them organic without  
  > breaking a law now. They have to meet arbitrary legal standards now. I  
  > have to call them "naturally-grown" or something.
  >       So, I'm no longer hyped up about organic gardening---again. IPM  
  > sounds logical to me. We have a county agent that this is a part of  
  > his job title "IPM Specialist".
  >       But I guess we have "different strokes for different folks" as  
  > Sly said in his song.
  >       Personally, I look at food like the scripture says, " every  
  > creature(referring to meat here---or food) of God is good, and nothing  
  > to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving. For it is  
  > sanctified by the word of God and prayer."  I try to pray over  
  > everything that I eat. I don't know(for sure) what's in the food that  
  > I eat(and literally noone does). But I know faith always works.
  >       Some folks have faith in organic, some in chemical. Let's not  
  > fight over which is right or wrong.
  >        Donna, keep up the good writings. You brightened my day!
  > Richard Harrison, NW FL
  >
  > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Kieran &/or Donna <holycow at frontiernet.net<mailto:holycow at frontiernet.net>> wrote:
  >
  > From: Kieran &/or Donna <holycow at frontiernet.net<mailto:holycow at frontiernet.net>>
  > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] chemical vs organic
  > To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>>
  > Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 11:13 AM
  > ?
  > Someone, I think it was Fluffy or maybe Alan who said organic people  
  > are "unscientific".   That's not entirely true.  Most of us are simply  
  > naive idealists who really believe that God or Nature is benign and  
  > nice.  We have read that if we just improve our soil enough, that the  
  > bugs and disease will go away.  That generally seems to hold true for  
  > truck crops.  I haven't seen a bean beetle in years.  Fruit trees seem  
  > much harder to deal with.  The borer for every species thing doesn't  
  > help.  The curculio seem to have developed the perfect system, simply  
  > ruin all the fruit for any other creature but let a few fruits hang on  
  > long enough to make a few seeds for the trees to reproduce. Codling  
  > moths aren't nearly as efficient.  Someone asked me at work about what  
  > was eating the leaves on various species of veggies in her first ever  
  > garden.  Two of us were interrogating her, as she was obviously  
  > describing rabbit or deer damage.  the same bug does not attack
  >  all those species, and each one does it's own very specific thing.   
  > The older men in the family had simply gone out and dusted Sevin to  
  > deal with all those other pests.  Here our worlds divide.  I adore  
  > bugs, except for the ones I hate with a passion.  I could never spray  
  > my garden with an insecticide, it would kill too many of my miniature  
  > wildlife.  ( I don't have to go on safari to Africa or even use  
  > binoculars to observe amazing creatures and great drama.  Try watching  
  > one of those special spider wasps in action.  You know, the blackish  
  > ones with the orange curly antennae.  Know what they use those  
  > antennae for?  They feel the spider very carefully with them to find  
  > the right spot to sting.  It's rather obscene to watch, esp as I am so  
  > fond of wolf spiders. )  I know a great deal about all kinds of bugs,  
  > including those that have no economic impact on me.  Tennessee  
  > oldtimers don't know these things, they kill everything with Sevin.   
  > That is
  >  scientific?   I get a big kick out of explaining to oldtimers about  
  > why the blister beetles they hate so much are only a mixed curse,  
  > because their young feed on grasshopper eggs.  Once we got banties  
  > running loose eating grasshoppers, the blister beetles became rare.
  >     Sevin is one of the 4 food groups in Tennessee.  Never mind that  
  > it is a neurotoxin that mammals can break down in their livers because  
  > they have an enzyme that insects don't have.  Never mind that this  
  > enzyme can be used up by repeated exposure or that certain medications  
  > can use it up.  Never mind the reports in Organic Gardening, that  
  > magazine for superstitious organic gardeners about how Sevin can last  
  > 40 days in the garden in certain conditions.  Never mind the final  
  > conclusion in the book A PLAGUE OF FROGS that it was the breakdown  
  > product of a pesticide that interfered with the thyroid function in  
  > the developing frogs and caused the limb deformities.  The researchers  
  > working with the pesticide itself did not get these results, giving  
  > the impression that it would not affect frogs.  Yes, there is also  
  > some kind of amphibian infection running around that can do this, but  
  > the Canadian researcher said flatly that in his years of sampling,  
  > that only
  >  farm ponds with lots of pesticides produced deformities.  Is it truly  
  > scientific to assume that chemicals don't break down into intermediate  
  > products out in Nature?  Some of us organic nuts are now bitter and  
  > twisted, having realised that the world consists mostly of creatures  
  > saying gimme.  We watch longingly the simple lives of chemical users,  
  > but are still only too aware that the miracle of modern chemistry is  
  > biting America's backside in the rates of cancer and other health  
  > problems.
  >     This is not intended as an attack on anyone on this group, I am  
  > merely addressing the great divide in Nafex.  Never mind politics, we  
  > don't go to Nafex meetings and then immediately try to figure out  
  > whether we are talking to a Dem or Rep, we want to know if we are  
  > talking with someone who grows resistant stuff or who grows the best  
  > of everything and sprays.  Both groups start out naive, but one trusts  
  > the chemical companies and sprays, the other puts their faith in  
  > Nature and doesn't spray.  Both get rewards, but often the organic  
  > bunch have to do a whole lot more learning first.  Personally, I would  
  > love to see the concept of IPM agriculture blossom.  I would love to  
  > be able to buy IPM produce in my local grocery.  But somehow the  
  > concept has never gotten major attention among consumers and  
  > publications to consumers.  IPM is definitely the most scientific form  
  > of agriculture in my opinion.  It is based on the intersection of 3  
  > realities, economic
  >  reality, and the knowlege of biology and chemistry.
  >     I suppose this is the foundation for an article I have long wanted  
  > to write for Pomona but never could quite figure out how to approach.   
  > The divide in Nafex between the organic and the chemical people is  
  > quite deep.  People have their minds as made up already as they did in  
  > the last election.  I soon discovered last year that I could only  
  > discuss politics with like minded people, that there were no  
  > discussions between sides, only arguments.  I think the divide is  
  > addressed by the Meyers-Briggs, Kiersey-Bates personality tests.  The  
  > division is between the 25% of the population who see the forest, and  
  > the 75% who see the trees.  Between the big picture and the details.   
  > The big picture people think the detail people are idiots because they  
  > can't grasp the implications of what they do.  The detail people think  
  > the big picture people are idiots because they are vague.  For the  
  > extremes of either type, there is sudden glazing over of the eyes when
  >  forced to converse with someone of the other brain type.  I have  
  > watched it happen, I have experienced it myself.  My husband once  
  > endured an excruciating conversation between a brother and BIL of  
  > mine, 15 full minutes regarding a scratch on a car and what to do  
  > about it.  Our attitude is, the car is transportation, a scratch means  
  > nothing to that purpose.  To detail people, a scratch is a very real  
  > thing.
  >      For the purposes of this discussion, ask yourself which type you  
  > are, and would you please report in which type you are and whether you  
  > think organic gardening is stupid  and chemicals are fine.  Remember  
  > there are people in the middle, more versatile people than the ones at  
  > the ends of the spectrum.  If you are in the middle, what is your  
  > opinion re chemicals, in 25 words or less?   Thank you.  Any input  
  > regarding an article for Pomona on this subject would be very much  
  > appreciated.  A group effort will produce a better balanced article.   
  > Some details, some theory, something for everyone.    Donna
  >
  > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  > _______________________________________________
  > nafex mailing list
  > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
  >
  > Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
  > This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web  
  > sites.
  > Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have  
  > permission!
  >
  > **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
  > Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
  > No exceptions.
  > ----
  > To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can  
  > be used to change other email options):
  > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex<http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex>
  >
  > File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
  > TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
  > Please do not send binary files.
  > Use plain text ONLY in emails!
  >
  > NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/<http://www.nafex.org/>
  >
  > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
  >
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > nafex mailing list
  > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
  >
  > Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
  > This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web  
  > sites.
  > Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have  
  > permission!
  >
  > **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
  > Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
  > No exceptions.
  > ----
  > To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can  
  > be used to change other email options):
  > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex<http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex>
  >
  > File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
  > TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
  > Please do not send binary files.
  > Use plain text ONLY in emails!
  >
  > NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/<http://www.nafex.org/>
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > -------------- next part --------------
  > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
  > URL:  
  > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/private/nafex/attachments/20090615/<http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/private/nafex/attachments/20090615/> 
  > 13140d8b/attachment.htm
  >
  > ------------------------------
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > nafex mailing list
  > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
  >
  > Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
  > This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web  
  > sites.
  > Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have  
  > permission!
  >
  > **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
  > Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
  > No exceptions.
  > ----
  > To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can  
  > be used to change other email options):
  > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex<http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex>
  >
  > File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
  > TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
  > Please do not send binary files.
  > Use plain text ONLY in emails!
  >
  > NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/<http://www.nafex.org/>
  >
  >
  > End of nafex Digest, Vol 77, Issue 73
  > *************************************
  >
  -------------- next part --------------
  A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
  Name: not available
  Type: text/enriched
  Size: 27118 bytes
  Desc: not available
  Url : http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/private/nafex/attachments/20090615/15f01c07/attachment.bin<http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/private/nafex/attachments/20090615/15f01c07/attachment.bin> 

  ------------------------------

  _______________________________________________
  nafex mailing list 
  nafex at lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>

  Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
  This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web sites.
  Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have permission!

  **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
  Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
  No exceptions.  
  ----
  To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can be used to change other email options):
  http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex<http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex>

  File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
  TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
  Please do not send binary files.
  Use plain text ONLY in emails!

  NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/<http://www.nafex.org/>


  End of nafex Digest, Vol 77, Issue 83
  *************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/private/nafex/attachments/20090615/a0a8ed03/attachment.html 


More information about the nafex mailing list