[NAFEX] nafex Digest, Vol 58, Issue 25

Alan Haigh alandhaigh at gmail.com
Sun Nov 18 19:19:34 EST 2007


I guess the growing season is definately over, this debate seems awfully far
removed from fruit exploration although I do find it mildly interesting.
Keep going, my score card has Febreze innocuous up by one and a half points
over Febreze dangerous.  Can someone tell me what the hell Febreze is, oh
nevernind it really doesn't matter, it doesn't sound like the kind of
product I'd purchase anyway- I'm guessing it's an air freshener.  Real
gardeners don't use these things, do they?  I just recently discovered that
soap is used for something other than killing aphids.

On Nov 18, 2007 6:09 PM, <nafex-request at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Re false statement in Vol. 58, Issue 13-? None found
>      (Michael Nave)
>   2. Re: Snopes.com <http://snopes.com/> (Michael Nave)
>   3. Re: Febreze nontoxic?-of course not (Scott Williamson)
>   4. Febreze toxicity (Michele Stanton)
>   5. Re: Febreze nontoxic?-of course not (Sonja & Raymond Barker)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:04:38 -0800 (PST)
> From: Michael Nave <jmichaelnave at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Re false statement in Vol. 58, Issue 13-? None
>        found
> To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <621380.75255.qm at web50901.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> No, there was no false statement. Febreze is toxic and
> can harm animals.
>
> Next time you decide to look up something on scopes,
> you may want to actually read what they say.
>
> With respect to birds, snopes quotes P&G which admits
> that you should not place birds in a cage that has
> just been sprayed.
>
> With respect to dogs and cats, the ASPCA considers
> febreze safe "WHEN USED AS DIRECTED." I would also
> note that every chemical poison used for insect
> control is also safe when used as directed. That says
> nothing about whether the product is otherwise
> dangerous.
>
> The problem with febreze, particularly in its earlier
> years, is that people did not understand that it is
> toxic and were not using it as directed. They were
> spraying it in bird cages while the birds were there
> and directly sparing it on dogs once or twice a day.
> After the internet information became public, more
> people became aware of the dangers posed by misusing
> febreze and responsible veterinarians who were
> familiar with the problem warned their clients not to
> misuse it, especially with birds.
>
>
> --- Jim Fruth <jfruth at tds.net> wrote:
>
> >     The statement, "Febreze is poisonous. It will
> > kill birds, dogs, cats
> > and just about anything else if used in sufficient
> > concentration," is an (false) Urban Legend  Read
> > what Snopes.com <http://snopes.com/> has to say
> > about it.
> >
> > http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/febreze.asp
> >
> > Jim Fruth
> > Brambleberry Farm
> > Pequot Lakes, MN  56472
> > For jams, jellies & syrups:
> > www.bberryfarm.com
> > (877)265-6856 [Store]
> > (218)831-7018 [My Cell]
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:10:33 -0800 (PST)
> From: Michael Nave <jmichaelnave at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Snopes.com <http://snopes.com/>
> To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <685356.85435.qm at web50905.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Snopes is just a married couple here in California,
> David and Barbara Mikkelson. They like researching
> things. They have no more ability to evaluate things
> they aren't trained in than anyone else. Mostly they
> are just a clearing house for compiling information,
> some of it accurate, some of it not.
>
> Of course if you have trouble thinking for yourself,
> snopes is always willing to give you their opinion.
>
>
> --- "William C. Garthright" <billg at inebraska.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > >     The statement, "Febreze is poisonous. It will
> > kill birds, dogs, cats and just about anything else
> > if used in sufficient concentration," is an (false)
> > Urban Legend.  Read what Snopes.com <http://snopes.com/> has to say
> about
> > it.
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/febreze.asp
> > >
> >
> >
> > Where would we be without Snopes.com <http://snopes.com/>? In this age
> of
> > email, I'm always
> > checking with them to see what's real and what's
> > not. After all, you
> > just never know. Talk about a useful Internet site!
> >
> > Thanks for the link, Jim.
> >
> > Bill
> > Lincoln, NE
> >
> > --
> >
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:05:21 -0500
> From: "Scott Williamson" <ScottW at acespower.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not
> To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <3B47C582E362004AB09538FF5DD54CF60ACFE9BB at acesex01.acespower.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> I agree and I would also add that the statement 'there is no scientific
> evidence that XXX product is harmful'  does not mean the product is 100%
> safe, even though that is what is normally implied when someone makes
> that claim.  It's just as accurate in most cases to say 'there is no
> scientific evidence that XXX product is safe'.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Olenio
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 4:03 PM
> To: 'North American Fruit Explorers'
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not
>
> Hi,
>
> Hello,
>
> Just because national manufacturers give bizarrely specific instructions
> and
> warnings does not mean it is toxic.  It means that 80% of the population
> has
> zero common sense and access to a lawyer.
>
> Toasters come with warnings not to immerse the toaster in your bathtub
> while
> bathing and making toast.  Does that mean it is a safety hazard?  Nope,
> it
> means a lot of people are stupid.
>
> Those instructions and warning are written for the "lowest common
> denominator" of society and to protect the manufacturer from whackos.
>
> Sure, some things need to be handled safely, but most of the warnings
> have
> nothing to do with safety but with people who have no common sense,
> and/or a
> desire to sue.
>
> Later,
> Tom
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Michael Nave
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 3:53 PM
> To: North American Fruit Explorers
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not
>
> Of course febreze is toxic. That's why P&G, the
> manufacturer, gives very specific instructions not to
> use it except as they direct. P&G and a natl
> veterinarians organization both caution not to place
> birds in a cage after spraying with febreze. You must
> allow time for the fumes to dissipate. If you don't,
> birds may be harmed. One of the ingredients is zinc
> chloride. Here's the MSDS for zinc chloride:
>
> http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/z2280.htm
>
> Note the language "DANGER! CORROSIVE. CAUSES BURNS TO
> ANY AREA OF CONTACT. HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED OR INHALED.
> AFFECTS THE CARDIOVASCULAR SYSTEM."
>
> Now the zinc chloride used in febreze is small
> concentration, but if you misuse febreze and many many
> pet owners do, you can harm pets. There are hundreds
> of people who have reported illness or death caused by
> overusing febreze. I am familiar with many bird owners
> whose birds have had health problems associated with
> febreze. Has a scientific lab proved that deaths were
> caused by febreze? No. But when you have dozens of
> animals that were perfectly healthy and their owners
> admit to misusing febreze, and there is no evidence
> for any other cause, the resulting conclusion is
> fairly easy to make, unless you work for P&G. And even
> P&G has bent over backwards to tell people not to
> misuses febreze. If it wasn't toxic, they wouldn't
> bother.
>
> And if you still think that febreze is nontoxic, why
> don't you perform a simple test? Spray yourself with
> febreze twice a day for a month. Then tell us how you
> feel. That's what some people were doing with their
> dogs. The dogs got sick.
>
>
> --- Lucky Pittman <lucky.pittman at murraystate.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > At 11:25 PM 11/13/2007, you wrote:
> > >Febreze is poisonous. It will kill birds, dogs,
> > cats
> > >and just about anything else if used in sufficient
> > >concentration.
> >
> > Urban/Internet myth.
> > There have been no confirmed cases of Febreze
> > causing death in any
> > pet - bird, cat, or dog.
> > "Contrary to rumors circulating on the Internet
> > alleging that Febreze
> > causes serious illness or death in pets, veterinary
> > toxicology
> > experts at the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center
> > regard Febreze
> > fabric freshener products to be safe for use in
> > households with pets.
> > As with any product, it is important that you always
> > follow label
> > instructions for use. However, should your cat
> > accidentally come into
> > contact with Febreze when it is still wet, we would
> > not anticipate
> > problems beyond mild skin irritation (which can
> > occur with any
> > product in animals with sensitive skin) or minor
> > stomach upset, if it
> > is ingested."
> >
> > However, even water will kill all the above animals
> > - and humans - if
> > used in sufficient concentration.
> >
> >
> > Louis L. "Lucky" Pittman, Jr., DVM
> > Veterinary Pathologist/ Dept. Chairman
> > Murray St. Univ.-Breathitt Veterinary Ctr.
> > Hopkinsville, KY
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nafex mailing list
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> ________________________________________________________________________
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> ________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:39:03 -0500
> From: "Michele Stanton" <6ducks at gmail.com>
> Subject: [NAFEX] Febreze toxicity
> To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID:
>        <f8b611550711181439s7341ebdcy49416c1249c19e8b at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> The intent of my original mail was simply to see if anyone else had
> noticed if Febreze appeared to mask insect pheromones, thus preventing
> hordes of Asian lady beetles from calling each other to party inside
> the house. I didn't spray it on the insects, just the door frame. Yes,
> that means I didn't follow label directions.........
>
> Proctor and Gamble has posted its MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)
> for Febreze on line.
> Here's the link:
>
> http://www.pg.com/content/pdf/01_about_pg/msds/fabric_and_homecare/air_care/Febreze_Air_Effects.pdf
>
> On my bottle, the first ingredient is the odor masker, then water, and
> then perfume, next propellent, etc.  The ingredients are listed
> euphemistically since Febreze's 'secret' is a trade secret.  THe
> odor-masking compound is supposedly a cyclodextrin, a sugar-type
> compound also used in foods. The propellent is supposed to be ethanol.
>
> Febreze has an LD50 of >5,000, which means that in case of acute
> exposure, it's considered 'virtually non-toxic' if ingested.
> The toxicology statement lists no known carcinogenic effects, and no
> known chronic effects.  OF course, an LD50 is not a complete list of
> possible adverse effects.  But then, we're back to the issue of
> reading and following directions.........
>
> Michele Stanton
> Disclaimer: Neither I nor anyone in my family works for P&G.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:09:10 -0800
> From: "Sonja & Raymond Barker" <orchard1 at telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not
> To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <001101c82a38$083e3990$43efe8d8 at ethicalgrower>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>        reply-type=original
>
> i think the XXX product should be banned....when my mother sprayed it in
> the
> family room a couple of years back the smell gave me allergies for months
> and she could not use the room for a long time...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Williamson" <ScottW at acespower.com>
> To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 2:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not
>
>
> >I agree and I would also add that the statement 'there is no scientific
> > evidence that XXX product is harmful'  does not mean the product is 100%
> > safe, even though that is what is normally implied when someone makes
> > that claim.  It's just as accurate in most cases to say 'there is no
> > scientific evidence that XXX product is safe'.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Olenio
> > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 4:03 PM
> > To: 'North American Fruit Explorers'
> > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Just because national manufacturers give bizarrely specific instructions
> > and
> > warnings does not mean it is toxic.  It means that 80% of the population
> > has
> > zero common sense and access to a lawyer.
> >
> > Toasters come with warnings not to immerse the toaster in your bathtub
> > while
> > bathing and making toast.  Does that mean it is a safety hazard?  Nope,
> > it
> > means a lot of people are stupid.
> >
> > Those instructions and warning are written for the "lowest common
> > denominator" of society and to protect the manufacturer from whackos.
> >
> > Sure, some things need to be handled safely, but most of the warnings
> > have
> > nothing to do with safety but with people who have no common sense,
> > and/or a
> > desire to sue.
> >
> > Later,
> > Tom
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Michael Nave
> > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 3:53 PM
> > To: North American Fruit Explorers
> > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not
> >
> > Of course febreze is toxic. That's why P&G, the
> > manufacturer, gives very specific instructions not to
> > use it except as they direct. P&G and a natl
> > veterinarians organization both caution not to place
> > birds in a cage after spraying with febreze. You must
> > allow time for the fumes to dissipate. If you don't,
> > birds may be harmed. One of the ingredients is zinc
> > chloride. Here's the MSDS for zinc chloride:
> >
> > http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/z2280.htm
> >
> > Note the language "DANGER! CORROSIVE. CAUSES BURNS TO
> > ANY AREA OF CONTACT. HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED OR INHALED.
> > AFFECTS THE CARDIOVASCULAR SYSTEM."
> >
> > Now the zinc chloride used in febreze is small
> > concentration, but if you misuse febreze and many many
> > pet owners do, you can harm pets. There are hundreds
> > of people who have reported illness or death caused by
> > overusing febreze. I am familiar with many bird owners
> > whose birds have had health problems associated with
> > febreze. Has a scientific lab proved that deaths were
> > caused by febreze? No. But when you have dozens of
> > animals that were perfectly healthy and their owners
> > admit to misusing febreze, and there is no evidence
> > for any other cause, the resulting conclusion is
> > fairly easy to make, unless you work for P&G. And even
> > P&G has bent over backwards to tell people not to
> > misuses febreze. If it wasn't toxic, they wouldn't
> > bother.
> >
> > And if you still think that febreze is nontoxic, why
> > don't you perform a simple test? Spray yourself with
> > febreze twice a day for a month. Then tell us how you
> > feel. That's what some people were doing with their
> > dogs. The dogs got sick.
> >
> >
> > --- Lucky Pittman <lucky.pittman at murraystate.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> At 11:25 PM 11/13/2007, you wrote:
> >> >Febreze is poisonous. It will kill birds, dogs,
> >> cats
> >> >and just about anything else if used in sufficient
> >> >concentration.
> >>
> >> Urban/Internet myth.
> >> There have been no confirmed cases of Febreze
> >> causing death in any
> >> pet - bird, cat, or dog.
> >> "Contrary to rumors circulating on the Internet
> >> alleging that Febreze
> >> causes serious illness or death in pets, veterinary
> >> toxicology
> >> experts at the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center
> >> regard Febreze
> >> fabric freshener products to be safe for use in
> >> households with pets.
> >> As with any product, it is important that you always
> >> follow label
> >> instructions for use. However, should your cat
> >> accidentally come into
> >> contact with Febreze when it is still wet, we would
> >> not anticipate
> >> problems beyond mild skin irritation (which can
> >> occur with any
> >> product in animals with sensitive skin) or minor
> >> stomach upset, if it
> >> is ingested."
> >>
> >> However, even water will kill all the above animals
> >> - and humans - if
> >> used in sufficient concentration.
> >>
> >>
> >> Louis L. "Lucky" Pittman, Jr., DVM
> >> Veterinary Pathologist/ Dept. Chairman
> >> Murray St. Univ.-Breathitt Veterinary Ctr.
> >> Hopkinsville, KY
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nafex mailing list
> >> nafex at lists.ibiblio.org
> >>
> >> Reproduction of list messages or archives is not
> >> allowed.
> >> This includes distribution on other email lists or
> >> reproduction on web sites.
> >> Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't
> >> claim you have permission!
> >>
> >> **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
> >> Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed
> >> are discarded.
> >> No exceptions.
> >> ----
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of
> >> this page (also can be used to change other email
> >> options):
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> >>
> >> File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
> >> TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER
> >> VIRUSES!
> >> Please do not send binary files.
> >> Use plain text ONLY in emails!
> >>
> >> NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > ____
> > ________
> > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> > _______________________________________________
> > nafex mailing list
> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org
> >
> > Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
> > This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web
> > sites.
> > Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have
> > permission!
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> > **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
> > Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
> > No exceptions.
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> >
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> > nafex at lists.ibiblio.org
> >
> > Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
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> End of nafex Digest, Vol 58, Issue 25
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