[NAFEX] Exploring the limits of kaki persimmon cold-hardiness (long)

Ginda Fisher list at ginda.us
Sun Nov 27 07:20:03 EST 2005


Has anyone tried importing Kaki seeds or other material from the 
northern edge of its natural range?  There's often a zone or two 
difference in the hardiness of plants depending on where the parent 
stock originated.

Ginda
eastern MA, zone 6

On Nov 26, 2005, at 9:58 PM, Richard Moyer wrote:

> Jerry signed off: "Where kaki can't be grown. :-("
> Jerry, I'm still hopeful for you, as below.
> We've heard on this list of folks fruiting Hana Fuyu in PA.  I'm 
> interested  in knowing who, beyond Jerry, has tried fruiting kakis in 
> Zone 4-5, which cultivars have died, and importantly, which are 
> survivors. 
> This from Lee Reich, Uncommon Fruits, 1st Ed:
> "Most available kaki cultivars are cold hardy to about zero degrees 
> F....(suitable for growing in USDA Hardiness Zones 7-10).  
> Cold-hardiness for any given cultivar is enhanced if growth is not 
> overly lush and the soil is well drained.  The species may even be as 
> cold-hardy as is the American persimmon.  In China, kaki have been 
> grown on the edge of the Gobi desert, where temperatures drop below 
> -15 F, and trees tolerate similar cold in Korea.  The dryness of these 
> regions may contribute to the plants' cold-hardiness.  Cultivars 
> planted outside the Orient have originated mostly in Japan where 
> tolerance to extreme cold is not needed." ( italics mine)
> My personal observation of old kaki trees at a Buddhist temple in the 
> mountains of Korea give me hope that Lee is right here.
>  
> Several additional reasons for hope for Jerry (and me):
> Clifford England has killed many kakis cultivars at their nursery in 
> the mountains of eastern Kentucky, including most all of what 
> are commonly sold .  They are selling two that work: Shin Na Da and 
> Hokkaido, that are multiyear survivors and bearers under their 
> conditions.  See www.nuttrees.net  I put in a tree of each last year.
>  
> Robert Hamilton referred to Adam and Sue Turtle's kaki trial, in true 
> NAFEX fashion.  As I remember it from Adam, while at a SFF meeting in 
> Florida, Adam collected the seeds other kaki tasters were discarding, 
> brought them all home and planted 100s out in a bed.  Most have been 
> killed in their TN location, but a few have survived and 
> thrived.  These are on their own roots, so even if they freeze to the 
> ground, could come back.  Adam highly recommends planting all grafted 
> kakis above the graft unions.
>  
> From Mike McConkey, Edible Landscaping, www.eat-it.com, for the kaki 
> Hira Tanenashi: "When fully dormant has stood -40 Siberian cold in 
> northern Japan, but because of the East Coast's fluctuating springtime 
> temps and late frosts, I do not recommmend Hira where there are -10 
> winters."
>  
> Another NAFEX member has a kaki that buds out very late, perhaps the 
> most important trait for my eastern US conditions.  Am trying this one 
> as well as the ones McConkey recommends for eastern US. 
>  
> Lucky Pittman is trialing a number of kakis as well, in South Central 
> KY.  Feel free to weigh in on this topic, Lucky.
>  
> In summary, Lee makes a compelling case for kaki germplasm that should 
> survive for Jerry in IN, the trick is finding those cultivars adapted 
> to eastern and midwest conditions.
>  
> (Greg Reighard and Jerry Payne, in a paper on Sudden Death in kaki 
> persimmons, discourage large scale commercial plantings, until more is 
> known about this malady.)
>  
> Feel free to counter, confirm or add to what's above, especially if 
> you have a kaki that survives below zero temps.
>  
> Thanks,
> Richard Moyer
> East Tenn, 1800', Zone 6
> Saijos tonight, imported from Georgia.   
>  
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