[NAFEX] Persimmons...unstable?

Lon J. Rombough lonrom at hevanet.com
Wed Nov 23 11:35:31 EST 2005

That's a large part of it, but I've been thinking about it for some 
time trying to come up with an additional explanation to account for 
the ability to produce limbs of the opposite sex.  I think it may work 
something like the way calico is expressed in cats, with "islands" of 
tissue where only one of two color genes (black or orange, usually) are 
expressed.  When a limb arises that is opposite sex, it may be that 
only one of the two chromosomes for sex control is being expressed in 
that limb.  Since both are still present, when you graft from that limb 
it can go back to the usual sex.
Needs more thinking out and explaining.
-Lon Rombough
Grapes, writing, consulting, my book, The Grape Grower, at 
http://www.bunchgrapes.com  Winner of the Garden Writers Association 
"Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003.
On Nov 23, 2005, at 7:49 AM, Lucky Pittman wrote:

At 10:41 PM 11/22/2005, Lon wrote:
> It's about a solid half hour of typing to get everything in, so I'm 
> going
> to have to pass for now, at least.  Maybe in a couple days, after
> Thanksgiving.

Here, Lon,
Let me save you some time & effort.  Here's an explanation you wrote, 
I'd saved from way back - when we were on e-groups:
"Several years ago I went throught Jim Claypool's notes and used the 
to work out a theory of the inheritance of sex in American persimmons, 
take into account the appearance of limbs of opposite sex flowers on a 
(limbs of male flowers on female trees, etc.).  For convenience, we 
to call ordinary persimmons as having XX for female and XO for male, O 
the plant equivalent of a Y chromosome.  Though in truth I think there 
much difference between the X and O, only a very few genes.
       Opposite sex types had at least one of those chromosomes with a 
gene on it that coded for flowers of the opposite sex on the tree, and 
were X' and O'.  A tree that had X'X was a female that would have some 
of male flowers.  X'O was a male that would, in some cases, have small
seedless fruit on it.  X'X' was a female that had a strong tendency to
produce male limbs, while X'O' was a male that would produce perfect 
and normally seeded fruit.  Now, with the X'O', it was possible to
self-pollinate it and get trees that were O'O' and these, theoretically,
should be essentially perfect flowered types.  However, we don't have 
test crosses to verify that.
      What it boils down to, is that it should be possible to cross the 
that produce perfect flowers and get some seedlings that produce ONLY
perfect flowers, or at least enough to make them truly useful, not just
something that takes up space once pollination is done.
      I hope this makes sense to all as it takes a LOT of writing to
re-explain the whole thing.  I am hopeful of doing a book on American
persimmons - kind of a new version of "Persimmons for Everyone" and will
include it in that when/if I can find a publisher.
-Lon Rombough"

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