[NAFEX] American persimmon on D. lotus rootstock & KSD

Dr. Chiranjit Parmar parmarch at sancharnet.in
Tue Dec 13 06:00:12 EST 2005


Let me put my two cents.  In fact, I tried to join this topic when it was 
started.  But my mails did not reach the list due to some problem.

D. lotus is called AMLOOK here in my part of India.  It being used as a 
rootstock for D. kaki for the past 6-7 decades and does very well.

I have some pioctures of D. lotus fruits and can e-mail if anyone is 
interested.

Very truly yours,

Dr.Chiranjit Parmar
Horticultural Consultant of Lesser Known Indian Fruits
www.lesserknownindianplants.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jacquelyn Kuehn" <jakuehn at verizon.net>
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] American persimmon on D. lotus rootstock & KSD


> Alan, may I use your comments from this and earlier persimmon postings
> in an upcoming Pomona?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jackie Kuehn
> editor-in-chief, Pomona
>
> On Dec 8, 2005, at 4:01 PM, yarry lo wrote:
>
>> Jerry,
>>
>> Apologies for the lack of clarity in my previous post. My question
>> refers to
>> D. lotus as a rootstock for D. virginiana, not for D. kaki.  Also my
>> term
>> "persimmon wilt" refers not to KSD but to the fungal disease caused by
>> Cephalosporium diospoyri, which had wiped out many of the native
>> stands of
>> persimmon in the southern states in the middle of the last century.
>> I have heard of one method of cloning D. virginiana rootstock which
>> involves
>> cutting one year old seedllings to the ground and then covering several
>> inches at the base of the resulting sprouts with sawdust , which
>> presumably
>> would serve as medium for new roots.  Once these rooted they could be
>> cut
>> from the main plant and serve as rootstocks. My attempts at this
>> method have
>> so far failed to produce any roots on the sprouts.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>> From: Jwlehman at aol.com
>>> Reply-To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
>>> To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] American persimmon on D. lotus rootstock & KSD
>>> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 10:10:39 EST
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>>> In a message dated 12/7/2005 5:34:24 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>>> yarrylo at hotmail.com writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone tried or considered D. lotus as an alternative to D.
>>> virginiana
>>>> as a rootstock for American persimmon?
>>>> I understand that D. lotus is less cold hardy than D.V. but still
>>> supposedly
>>>> hardy to zone 5, so would its use still present a hardiness problem
>>>> in
>>> zones
>>>>
>>>> 6 and higher?
>>>> Also noting some growers' observations of the significant
>>>> variability of
>>>> persimmon variety traits on different individual D.V. rootstocks,
>>>> might
>>> D.
>>>> lotus rootstock allow a more consistent expression of the graft (as
>>>> it
>>>> apparently
>>>> does for D. kaki for which it is the preferred rootstock in some
>>> locations),
>>>> thereby possibly improving cultivar evaluations?
>>>> And is it reasonable to expect a somewhat dwarfed or shrubier plant
>>>> to
>>> grow
>>>> on lotus stock and would these qualities be desirable for harvesting
>>>> considerations?
>>>> Might also the naturally resistant D. lotus provide some protection
>>>> from
>>>> persimmon wilt?
>>>> But back to basics, will this graft even take?!
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Alan Stein
>>>
>>> Hello Alan,
>>>
>>> Yes, there is significant variability in D. virginiana that causes
>>> problems
>>> comparing
>>> clones in test blocks. I'd also believe this would hold true for D.
>>> lotus
>>> seedlings. And because of having one species on another, the over all
>>> variability
>>> may even be greater.  Strictly guessing!
>>>
>>> What we need is a method to clone Diospyros rootstocks and Purdue is
>>> working
>>> on that and have succeeded somewhat. We could than test on uniform
>>> understocks. The system isn't perfected and hopefully lack of funds
>>> will
>>> not halt the
>>> work. One plant propagator has said they would produce rootstocks if
>>> invitro
>>> propagation is perfected.
>>>
>>> I have lotus growing here in Indiana and they freeze to the ground
>>> every
>>> year, except one in the past 8 years. I think maybe two are still
>>> alive. If
>>> D.
>>> lotus were used as understock here, Zone 5b, I'd suggest the graft
>>> would
>>> need be
>>> made low, below ground level. But then kaki would still suffer winter
>>> damage
>>> in zone 5 and even zone 6.
>>>
>>> Yes, lotus is used as understock for kaki and recommended in the
>>> South.
>>> Lotus
>>> is less tap rooted and have more laterals making it theoretically a
>>> better
>>> rootstock. I have no experience to speak from. But they are graft
>>> compatible.
>>> Some nurseries use lotus as an understock.
>>>
>>> Have no idea if lotus would offer resistance for persimmon wilt also
>>> called
>>> KSD. Keep in mind this writer believes there could be more than one
>>> cause
>>> or
>>> combination of causes for sudden death and shepherd hooking is a
>>> symptom of
>>> dying kaki from one or more causes.
>>>
>>> Now if KSD is caused from Manganese poising as has been speculated,
>>> then
>>> lotus could be a preventative if the uptake of Manganese is less than
>>> with
>>> virginiana or kaki as I've seen reports that kaki on kaki can also
>>> exhibit
>>> KSD.
>>>
>>> We know some varieties within a given species have more resistance to
>>> certain
>>> viruses. For example, at the USDA, Beltsville, where they test
>>> incoming
>>> plant
>>> material for viruses one of the first steps is graft Prunus to virus
>>> sensitive rootstocks. If the rootstock dies, the material is virus
>>> infected. No need
>>> to test further. If one of the causes of KSD is a virus then
>>> virginiana
>>> must be
>>> tolerant of it. Would lotus impart resistance to grafted kaki? Have no
>>> idea.
>>> Virginiana certainly doesn't seem to and acts more like a carrier.
>>> See
>>> Lester
>>> Davis input on the subject 12/02/05, subject title: Kaki sex.
>>>
>>> There you have it, much verbiage, no conclusion.
>>>
>>> Jerry
>>
>>
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