[NAFEX] American persimmon on D. lotus rootstock & KSD

Jacquelyn Kuehn jakuehn at verizon.net
Mon Dec 12 20:23:45 EST 2005


Alan, may I use your comments from this and earlier persimmon postings  
in an upcoming Pomona?

Thanks.

Jackie Kuehn
editor-in-chief, Pomona

On Dec 8, 2005, at 4:01 PM, yarry lo wrote:

> Jerry,
>
> Apologies for the lack of clarity in my previous post. My question  
> refers to
> D. lotus as a rootstock for D. virginiana, not for D. kaki.  Also my  
> term
> "persimmon wilt" refers not to KSD but to the fungal disease caused by
> Cephalosporium diospoyri, which had wiped out many of the native  
> stands of
> persimmon in the southern states in the middle of the last century.
> I have heard of one method of cloning D. virginiana rootstock which  
> involves
> cutting one year old seedllings to the ground and then covering several
> inches at the base of the resulting sprouts with sawdust , which  
> presumably
> would serve as medium for new roots.  Once these rooted they could be   
> cut
> from the main plant and serve as rootstocks. My attempts at this  
> method have
> so far failed to produce any roots on the sprouts.
>
> Alan
>
>
>> From: Jwlehman at aol.com
>> Reply-To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] American persimmon on D. lotus rootstock & KSD
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>> In a message dated 12/7/2005 5:34:24 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>> yarrylo at hotmail.com writes:
>>>
>>>
>>> Has anyone tried or considered D. lotus as an alternative to D.
>> virginiana
>>> as a rootstock for American persimmon?
>>> I understand that D. lotus is less cold hardy than D.V. but still
>> supposedly
>>> hardy to zone 5, so would its use still present a hardiness problem  
>>> in
>> zones
>>>
>>> 6 and higher?
>>> Also noting some growers' observations of the significant  
>>> variability of
>>> persimmon variety traits on different individual D.V. rootstocks,  
>>> might
>> D.
>>> lotus rootstock allow a more consistent expression of the graft (as  
>>> it
>>> apparently
>>> does for D. kaki for which it is the preferred rootstock in some
>> locations),
>>> thereby possibly improving cultivar evaluations?
>>> And is it reasonable to expect a somewhat dwarfed or shrubier plant  
>>> to
>> grow
>>> on lotus stock and would these qualities be desirable for harvesting
>>> considerations?
>>> Might also the naturally resistant D. lotus provide some protection  
>>> from
>>> persimmon wilt?
>>> But back to basics, will this graft even take?!
>>> Thanks
>>> Alan Stein
>>
>> Hello Alan,
>>
>> Yes, there is significant variability in D. virginiana that causes  
>> problems
>> comparing
>> clones in test blocks. I'd also believe this would hold true for D.  
>> lotus
>> seedlings. And because of having one species on another, the over all
>> variability
>> may even be greater.  Strictly guessing!
>>
>> What we need is a method to clone Diospyros rootstocks and Purdue is
>> working
>> on that and have succeeded somewhat. We could than test on uniform
>> understocks. The system isn't perfected and hopefully lack of funds  
>> will
>> not halt the
>> work. One plant propagator has said they would produce rootstocks if
>> invitro
>> propagation is perfected.
>>
>> I have lotus growing here in Indiana and they freeze to the ground  
>> every
>> year, except one in the past 8 years. I think maybe two are still  
>> alive. If
>> D.
>> lotus were used as understock here, Zone 5b, I'd suggest the graft  
>> would
>> need be
>> made low, below ground level. But then kaki would still suffer winter
>> damage
>> in zone 5 and even zone 6.
>>
>> Yes, lotus is used as understock for kaki and recommended in the  
>> South.
>> Lotus
>> is less tap rooted and have more laterals making it theoretically a  
>> better
>> rootstock. I have no experience to speak from. But they are graft
>> compatible.
>> Some nurseries use lotus as an understock.
>>
>> Have no idea if lotus would offer resistance for persimmon wilt also  
>> called
>> KSD. Keep in mind this writer believes there could be more than one  
>> cause
>> or
>> combination of causes for sudden death and shepherd hooking is a  
>> symptom of
>> dying kaki from one or more causes.
>>
>> Now if KSD is caused from Manganese poising as has been speculated,  
>> then
>> lotus could be a preventative if the uptake of Manganese is less than  
>> with
>> virginiana or kaki as I've seen reports that kaki on kaki can also  
>> exhibit
>> KSD.
>>
>> We know some varieties within a given species have more resistance to
>> certain
>> viruses. For example, at the USDA, Beltsville, where they test  
>> incoming
>> plant
>> material for viruses one of the first steps is graft Prunus to virus
>> sensitive rootstocks. If the rootstock dies, the material is virus
>> infected. No need
>> to test further. If one of the causes of KSD is a virus then  
>> virginiana
>> must be
>> tolerant of it. Would lotus impart resistance to grafted kaki? Have no
>> idea.
>> Virginiana certainly doesn't seem to and acts more like a carrier.   
>> See
>> Lester
>> Davis input on the subject 12/02/05, subject title: Kaki sex.
>>
>> There you have it, much verbiage, no conclusion.
>>
>> Jerry
>
>
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