[nafex] Re: On Granny Smith and Hillary?

H. Dessureault inter.verbis at atreide.net
Mon Dec 11 07:18:44 EST 2000

Interesting, we don't know who George Patataki voted for...
In a basket of apples discarded, maybe Mrs Smith had a lucky seed.
Thanks for the information on triploid, I often wondered about it.

I have never tasted Bramley. I am simply going on the fact that Bramley existed (at least it seems like it did) at about  the right time in England and was popular enough to remain popular to this date.

H. Dessureault

    -----Message d'origine-----
    De : jim <jmc1 at epix.net>
    À : nafex at egroups.com <nafex at egroups.com>
    Date : mardi 12 décembre 2000 01:37
    Objet : Re: [nafex] Granny Smith apple
    Bramley's Seedling is a triploid.  You may have noticed that seed count typically is fewer than 3, with additional empty seed husks.  Like other triploids, the few seeds produced are, with rare exceptions, aneuploid;  chromosome numbers are usually between 35 and 45.  Few of the seeds will germinate, and almost all of those few seedlings will have small, strap-like leaves -- looks much like roundup damage. 
    The odds against Granny Smith deriving from Bramley's Seedling are far greater than the odds against George Patataki voting for Hillary Clinton last month. 


    dwalsh/wchase wrote: 

          According to Morgan and Richards The Book of Apples: A Mrs Smith, born in England in 1800, emigrated to Australia in 1838. In 1860s she found some seedlings growing in a creek where she had tipped out some apples brought back from Sydney. Tree was propagated and later family increased their orchards and marketed fruit in Sydney.  Apples exported from Sydney to Britain in 1930s       (There is no mention of Bramley's Seedling being involved.  Bramley's and Granny Smith look and taste very different). According to Martin Crawford's Directory of Apple Cultivars:  Reine des Pommes is a cider (bittersweet) apple from Brittany, blooms early, pick in November, greenish-yellow flushed dark red, moderate vigour, good cropper, no parentage given. Derry Derry Walsh & Bill Chase  email:wchase at interchange.ubc.ca 
        Aldergrove,  B. C.,  Canada 
        phone/fax (604) 856-9316 
        ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 
        Home web page  http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/wchase/HTML 
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: H. Dessureault
            To: nafex at egroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 6:28 PM
            Subject: Re: [nafex] Sutton Beauty apple
             Hi,I find your discussion on varieties very interesting.I imagine Bramley to be a parent of Granny Smith, is that so?Would you happen to know about Reine des pommes?Some information would be very appreciated. H. DessureaultQuébec, Zone 3a -----Message d'origine----- 
            De : dwalsh/wchase <wchase at interchange.ubc.ca> 
            À : nafex at egroups.com <nafex at egroups.com> 
            Date : dimanche 10 décembre 2000 19:06 
            Objet : [nafex] Sutton Beauty appleClaude, 
            I had to go to the books again to see if I could find anything on Dumelow or 

            Acc to Martin Crawford, Dumelow Seedling comes from England, is a cooker, and is a 
            Northern Greenling seedling. 

            A friend has the Apples of NY as well as all sorts of good reference books. 

            She says the US germplasm repository (from before the Internet) lists Sutton and 
            Sutton Beauty, so that 
            variety is not lost to the world. 
            She also says that Aof NY says it is an error 
            to consider Wellington and Dumelow as synonyms of SB.  I think I understood from 
            her that Wellington and Dumelow Seedling and Dumelow's crab are synonyms of one 
            another and Sutton Beauty has many synonyms including Sutton and Morris Red. 
            Sutton Beauty 
            is a seedling of Hubbardson Nonsuch.   Hubbardson Nonsuch is also listed as a 
            synonym of SB, but A of NY says it is not a 'synonym', but a 'seedling of'. 
            Apparently the picture of Sutton Beauty in A of NY is of a very nice-looking 
            apple.  It came out of Massachusetts in 1848.Also Sutton Beauty is an eating apple 
            (vs Dumelow which is a cooker) 

            However, I went onto the US germplasm Repository site and there is no listing of 
            Sutton or Sutton Beauty or Morris Red. There is a listing of Wellington, but this 
            is presumably a US Wellington, not the British one. 

            I also checked the US Germplasm site for 'Winter' and 'Winter Dessert'.  No sign 
            of either.     Winter is probably a generic name, or a short form of one of the 
            many apples having 'winter' as part of their name. 

            These searches are interesting, 

            Thanks for your input, 


            Derry Walsh & Bill Chase  email:wchase at interchange.ubc.ca 
            Aldergrove,  B. C.,  Canada 
            phone/fax (604) 856-9316 
            ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 
            Home web page  http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/wchase/HTML 
            ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 
            : Derry, 
            : Looking in my documentation, I don't find anything on Winter or Winter 
            : Dessert. However, from Beach's Apples of NY, Sutton Beauty is a synonym for 
            : those 2 varieties: 
            : Dumelow (also called Wellington), a yellow English cooker, 
            : Sutton, a seedling of Hubbardston prior to 1850, orig. Mass. 
            : Claude 

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