[Market-farming] Marketing

Tradingpost tradingpost at gilanet.com
Thu Feb 10 18:37:18 EST 2005


When I say "wrong" I don't intent a moral judgment or anything of the sort.
I believe the mainstream ad business we see day and night is "wrong" for a
sensible culture, "wrong" for the economy, and so forth. Madison Avenue, as
we call it, is all geared to creating demand while ignoring real needs that
should be met. Which means getting people to feel they have to spend money
for things they didn't particularly want or need to begin with.  "Wrong" in
the sense it's bogus. And of course it's only for one purpose, not to
better humanity, not to serve peoples' needs, not to improve anyone's life,
but to pull in business and market share for corporations pushing the
latest overpriced gizmos for brushing your teeth to cars that tell you to
turn left at the next corner. 

paul tradingpost at gilanet.com
http://largocreekfarms.com
http://medicinehill.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 2/10/2005 at 2:56 PM jay gee wrote:

>Paul,
>
>Your original post makes reference
>to David Ogilvy's excellent book,
>"Ogilvy on Advertising".
>
>Labeling what advertising and
>PR firms on Madison Avenue do
>as "wrong" is a value judgement
>you are entitled to make for yourself
>and welcome to broadcast as widely
>as you wish.
>
>Whether that judgement is prescient
>or mistaken is beside the point.
>
>Any marketer, whether farmer,
>grocer or carpenter, will have an
>easier time selling his/her wares
>if s/he learns from successful
>trail blazers in advertising and
>marketing.
>
>You may market any way you like
>and I could not care less.   If what you
>do brings you success or makes you feel
>good about yourself, more power to you.
>
>As for others, they get to choose for
>themselves and reinventing the wheel
>is not as easy or necessary as you
>might believe.
>
>What Madison Avenue has learned
>is to believe in and apply research.
>
>That's the long and short of "Ogilvy on
>Advertising" as well.
>
>Market farmers who do research in
>advance reap benefits that those
>who don't do research are unlikely
>to enjoy.
>
>jg
>
>
>
>On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 07:39:42 -0700, Tradingpost wrote:
>
>> Sorry, couldn't disagree more. I have studied them, and I do not respect
>> them, because they are wrong. I will not "emulate" someone doing
>something
>> wrong just because it works. 
>> 
>> Talking down to people doesn't help get your point across. But it does
>show
>> your true values, doesn't it.
>> 
>> paul tradingpost at gilanet.com
>> http://largocreekfarms.com
>> http://medicinehill.net
>> 
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> 
>> On 2/10/2005 at 6:24 AM jay gee wrote:
>> 
>> >Paul and others,
>> >
>> >I don't know about Steve's workshops, but I do know that
>> >public relations (PR) and advertising firms are not primarily
>> >marketing companies, except when trying to sell their own
>> >services.
>> >
>> >The process of marketing is a little broader than what
>> >Steve described in that it not only involves long term
>> >strategies, it also involves short term strategies, including
>> >day to day selling and advertising.
>> >
>> >Marketing involves oversight and planning of all the
>> >channels used in the distribution of a product or a
>> >service by a seller.  It includes both the strategic and
>> >tactical practices required in producing and selling the
>> >product, including such disparate functions as cost
>> >accounting and inventory control, as well as advertising
>> >and communications (PR), market research and a whole
>> >host of others.
>> >
>> >This description may seem excessive to you if you
>> >want to believe you are "out gunned" by Madison
>> >Avenue.  You may be both out gunned and out spent
>> >by bigger firms able to mount multi-million dollar ad
>> >campaigns, BUT ...
>> >
>> >if you adopt the practices of Madison Avenue and
>> >bend them to your needs and will, they pay off in
>> >bigger ways that you might imagine.
>> >
>> >You should respect them because they work.
>> >
>> >You should study them because they work.
>> >
>> >AND, try to emulate them as is appropriate for
>> >what you are doing.
>> >
>> >Have a good day.
>> >
>> >Jay Gee
>> >not a farmer but interested in farming
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:13:50 -0700, Tradingpost wrote:
>> >
>> >> You teach workshops for an industry that doesn't exist? And what do
>you
>> >> call all the public relations and ad firms in this country, that do a
>> >> 3-billion dollar business, if there is no marketing industry?  And do
>we
>> >> really need to be told that marketing is a necessary part of food
>> >selling?
>> >> You admit that despite all your research it still came down to luck. 
>So
>> >> much for fancy workshops ---
>> >> 
>> >> -paul tradingpost at gilanet.com
>> >> http://largocreekfarms.com
>> >> http://medicinehill.net
>> >> 
>> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >> 
>> >> On 2/9/2005 at 8:22 PM Steven Rogers wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> >There is no "marketing industry". Marketing is a busines function
>> >> >that every business does no matter what size. Often, people are 
>> >> >marketing when they don't even know it. When you make the decision
>> >> >to sell your goods at a farmer's market or a farm stand etc you have
>> >just
>> >> >made a marketing decision.
>> >> >I have taught several workshops on marketing, and it always scares
me
>> >> >to see how many people don't even know what marketing is. Marketing
>> >> >is not loading your harvest into your vehicle and setting up a stand
>at
>> >> >the market. That is selling an merchandising, not marketing.
>> >> >Marketing is a long term strategic business activity. Sales is a
>> >> day-to-day
>> >> >operational activity. You can't have sales without doing some
>marketing
>> >> >even if you are unaware that marketing is what you are doing. You
can
>> >have
>> >> >marketing and not generate any sales. Marketing defines your market
>> >where
>> >> >the 
>> >> >sales activity will take place. My market is a very tightly defined
>> >niche
>> >> >market:
>> >> >I sell only to fine dining restaurants in the downtown Portland area
>> who
>> >> >will buy on
>> >> >average more than $200/week from me. Someone else's market may be
>much
>> >> >broader:  10 farmer's markets in the greater Metro area, produce
>> >markets,
>> >> >restaurants
>> >> >and internet sales of select items. Your price points and margins
are
>> >> >determined 
>> >> >by marketing. Your product selection is determined by marketing. I
>> >> >performed
>> >> >a one year long marketing study before starting my business. It
>> >consisted
>> >> >of,
>> >> >among other things, Checking prices monthlty on a variety of produce
>> >items
>> >> >to track pricing trends, interviewing produce managers,
>> >farmers,consumers,
>> >> >anyone who would talk to me. Then I ran the numbers, built some
>> >proformas
>> >> >and went for it. The numbers were conservative and it looked
marginal
>> at
>> >> >best
>> >> >but I caught some luck and the sales came in.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Steven Rogers
>> >> >singingpigfarm at earthlink.net
>> >> >EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >_______________________________________________
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>> >> >Market-farming at lists.ibiblio.org
>> >> >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/market-farming
>> >> >
>> >> >Get the list FAQ at: http://www.marketfarming.net/mflistfaq.htm
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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