Ch-scene Digest, Vol 16, Issue 23

Sorren Thule sorren23 at
Wed Feb 23 16:24:08 EST 2005

and new dominion avenue, which is probably coming in more handy than freedom 
or democracy right now <wink>

I predict that your prediction of 2 years will come true, possibly in 
spades.  The only way they could maybe fix this situation is if they made 
the apartments over the cradle wonderful 1-room beauties based very closely 
on the ones over marathon pizza.  If I could live by myself for 150.00 a 
month (and walk home after the show) I would be in heaven.  And maybe 
soundproofing?  But the bass . .. . it's thumpin' . . .

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allen, Richard" <RAllen at>
To: <ch-scene at>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 4:15 PM
Subject: RE: Ch-scene Digest, Vol 16, Issue 23

Right now in Williamsburg and the Lower East Side, NYC, clubs are being shut 
down because investment bankers are buying apartments in what they see as 
"hot" "hip" "underpriced" (to them) neighborhoods, then complaining about 
the very things that create hotness and hipness in those neighborhoods, i.e. 
the nightclubs.

People with money (I would say yuppies except that the term is meaningless 
now) buy near clubs because they imagine a fun atmosphere which will offset 
the drabness of their lives. Then they have a kid and get livid because the 
booming bass 10 blocks away wakes the baby, which cries all night. Then the 
yuppies (so to speak, we're all whores here) can't get enough sleep to slog 
through their 80 hour a week jobs, and they march down to City Hall. They 
own property and pay a lot of taxes, so they always win in the end.

If you put 100 apartments atop the Cat's Cradle, I guarantee one of the 
buyers is going to have a problem with the music within 2 years of the 
apartments going on the market, and there will be big problems.

Another consideration: this development sounds vaguely like the Reston Town 
Center, scourge of my hometown (if by scourge one means the sort of place 
one hates and everyone else loves) - a fake downtown area which looks and 
feels like a movie set. Sounds like a good compromise on paper but is 
entirely prefab and gross in real life. Carrboro is a small town, not a 
suburb in need of a fake downtown where "Freedom Street" meets "Democracy 

for reference:


Message: 14
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:06:39 -0500
From: grady <grady at>
Subject: Re: cradle & arts center move
To: RTP-area local music and culture <ch-scene at>
Message-ID: <421CAA0F.80808 at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Heh. I hope they read the "First Person" thing in last week's Indy by
the lady who moved into Downtown Durham expecting it to be silent as a
fucking tomb, all about how upset she is that there's a club in Downtown
Durham that makes noise after dark.

And while I sure as shit wouldn't want to live anywhere near a club,
especially one with booming bass, that's one reason why I bought several
acres of land in the country & built a house smack in the middle of it.
Rather than, you know, buying a building right in the middle of a
downtown commercial district & then moving into it.

I said this when Christa posted the previous info, and I'll say it
again: I predict hasslements from people moving into the
apartment/condos in this development if there is *any* noise after 10:00
p.m. from either the Cradle, the ArtsCenter, or the new outdoor
amphitheater between them.

I love the idea of mixed-use developments and people living above
commercial space, but it may be harder than people imagine to quickly
make the transition from a suburban/small-town headspace to a more
urban/mixed-use headspace. Certainly the person who wrote the piece in
the Indy seemed to have *no* room in her headspace for the notion that a
downtown area might be noisy after dark.

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