[Cc-uk] CC going mad?

David M. Berry d.berry at sussex.ac.uk
Wed Jun 22 09:37:26 EDT 2005

On 22 Jun 2005, at 14:12, Cory Doctorow wrote:

> No, I'm saying that getting into the silly business of "How dare  
> those people" (who are our allies, who work with us, whose goals we  
> support 100 percent and vice-versa) "call themselves 'Free Culture  
> Movement'" is sniping. There is zero substance to such a complaint.  
> There's nothing wrong with the name "Free Culture Movement" for an  
> org.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. The website is http:// 
www.freeculture.org/ and *they* are 1 year old. The 'movement' is  
much older, and according to John Markoff (in What the Dormouse said)  
can be traced right back to the late 1950s in computer culture. Not  
excepting the work of people like economists like  Paul Davies and  
others who show the importance of free culture in the scientific and  
research communities dating way back.  Oh yeah, and the critical  
legal tradition, Boyle, Lessig, Fisher et al

> Wrt to CC: I'm saying that not enjoying someone else's gag isn't  
> the same thing as having a substantive disagreement.

I agree with the statement vis a vis the 'ends'. But I may have a  
substantive disagreement with the 'means'.

> Wrt "over there." My postcode is in NW5. Where "over there" do you  
> think I am?

I didn't mean you personally. ;-)

I meant in terms of the page appearing on the CC US site rather than  
appearing on a UK CC site.

> Cory
> On Jun 22, 2005, at 2:09 PM, David M. Berry wrote:
>> Cory
>> You seem to be saying 'let's have no dissent'. I would argue that  
>> we need a rich and critical discussion of all activities that  
>> Creative Commons gets itself into otherwise grave mistakes (like  
>> the Bzzz public relations fiasco) will be made. A lot of people  
>> invest a lot of time and personal work into supporting the  
>> Creative Commons, and when it starts to act completely  
>> authoritarian (like the Sampler License rename http:// 
>> lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/cc-sampling/2004-August/thread.html )  
>> or even plain dumb (like this), then it is important that it gets  
>> critical feedback from its supporters as well as its foes.
>> Maybe this 'joke' works better over there than over here. I don't  
>> know. But Creative Commons' actions I sometimes find plain  
>> conservative and reactionary rather than progressive. The dangers  
>> with Creative Commons, are their tacit acceptance of copyright  
>> (indeed their *need* for it) means that it can be used as an  
>> argument to support copyright extension rather than reject it. In  
>> other words 'copyright works, just look how CC makes the whole  
>> thing run smoother, who needs term limitations when stuff can be  
>> licensed anyway'. To read more of our critique see Free Software  
>> Magazine: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/current_issues/ 
>> #issue_05
>> Anyway, it's hardly a firing squad, and hardly in a circle, as  
>> clearly others agree with you and my remarks have generated lots  
>> of contrary debate - always a good thing.
>> ;-)
>> Cheers
>> David
>> On 22 Jun 2005, at 10:27, Christian Ahlert wrote:
>>>> Is it really
>>>> necessary to arrange this firing squad in a circle?
>>>> Cory
> --
> Cory Doctorow
> doctorow at craphound.com
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