[Cc-uk] RE: Cc-uk Digest, Vol 17, Issue 6

Damian Tambini damian.tambini at socio-legal-studies.oxford.ac.uk
Wed Jun 22 06:25:22 EDT 2005


Creative Commons is, in my view an excellent tool for education on the
general theme of creativity and rights of users and artists. We are
continually involved in education and our system of licenses and icons is in
itself an excellent means of helping young people to understand the
implications of their actions in creating and sharing content. I think I
speak for others in saying that Creative Commons would be delighted to be
involved in an educational initiative in schools. We would not be interested
in being associated in any way with an agenda that is entirely based on the
perspective of a particular 20th century business model of intellectual
property exploitation.

 

As yet, we have not been involved or consulted in relation to current
initiatives in schools in England and Wales.

 

Damian Tambini

Project lead England and Wales

Creative Commons

  _____  

From: cc-uk-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:cc-uk-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of RAFFERTY DAMIAN
Sent: 22 June 2005 11:09
To: David M. Berry
Cc: cc-uk at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: RE: [Cc-uk] RE: Cc-uk Digest, Vol 17, Issue 6

 

David - I agree with pretty much all of what you say on a personal level and
I am familiar with the arguments. I take it as a given that everyone on this
list wants to see more creative activity not less. I would just add that
whatever the merits of the current copyright regime, there is no possibility
of progress in this area without people understanding their rights and
restrictions in relation to the law as it now stands. 

 

It seems inevitable also that more education in this area will come into
schools and so the issue is whether this is left to those within the
creative industries to lead and in many cases even fund.

 

Therefore, the issue boils down to one of strategy, not intent. Does CC
attempt to create a rival educational sphere or seek to embed its messages
in a discourse within schools that will inevitably involve big copyright
owners?

 

A classic reformist dilemma if there ever was one:)

 

Damian

-----Original Message-----
From: David M. Berry [mailto:d.berry at sussex.ac.uk]
Sent: 21 June 2005 18:08
To: RAFFERTY DAMIAN
Cc: cc-uk at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [Cc-uk] RE: Cc-uk Digest, Vol 17, Issue 6

 

Damian,

 

I am rather concerned that more careful and nuanced understanding is being
lost in comments like this. I am sure that the 'creative industries', as
they call themselves, would like us to understand that the things they sell
are a form of property, but in actual fact what they have is in reality a
limited term monopoly granted by Parliament which is part of a public
bargain. This means that it *does not* equate with physical property, and I
think that teaching this in schools is exactly the kind of backwards step
away from creativity that we should be against.  

 

Creativity requires that we can reuse culture, and in the production of new
cultural works it is generally understood that a limited monopoly right may
be in the best interests of the creator to allow them to have an income (but
see theorists such as Terry Fisher for alternatives). But this is a balance
between a public good and a private interest that has to be carefully
managed and that we need to always keep alert to. This monopoly right is
extremely tempting (as are all monopolies) as it can bring in untold riches
by the simple extension of ownership of a copyright or patent. Put
multinational corporations into the equation and it begins to make a great
deal of sense for them to attempt to extend copyright indefinitely in order
to make the monopoly last as long as possible and the profit to roll in. 

 

I fear that rather than making people more knowledgeable, the current
creative industry support for this pseudo-education in schools is to confuse
the issue enough so that the difference between physical and intellectual
property becomes lost. They are distinct types of legal right and they
should remain distinct. We should be educating children into understanding
why this legal and ethical distinction is important and why it is crucial
for our democratic culture that a vibrant cultural commons is needed so that
people can use, reuse, transform and remake culture with every new
generation. Rather than, as Lessig has said, allowing the past (or
multinationals) to control the future. 

 

Lastly I would like to add that you are correct in your diagnosis linking
the 'consumption' of intellectual property with the copyright regime. This
is because owners seeks to restrict and emasculate the consumer so that it
would be a crime for them to make new meanings or cultural works with
copyrighted material. Creative commons and other similar movements like
open-source and libre culture seek to make the consumer active and creative
through giving them the ability to use the works in new ways. This is a
productive relationship that is extremely important in creativity and the
creative act. 

 

- David

 

 

On 21 Jun 2005, at 17:41, RAFFERTY DAMIAN wrote:





I hope you can share the 'copyright for kids' learning as this is a very
interesting area. The creative industries are very keen that children
understand that the things they make and consume are a form of property and
those more inclined to CC probably agree that we should all be more
knowledgeable.

 

 

In general, the most important thing is safety. Making sure the children can
not be traced back to where they live, or go to school, if their pictures
are used for instance is critical.

 

I suspect also that children cannot assign conditions to their copyright
meaningfully without adult or most probably parental advice. Interestingly,
if the content that the children remixed was already on a share-alike
agreement, then this would stand. Perhaps the answer is to educate the
children and parents into why you are doing this and explain that you will
be using a share-alike agreement?

 

Damian

 

 





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