[cc-sampling] Movie Samples In Songs

Z-Train Music ztrainmusic at hotmail.com
Fri Apr 23 19:56:51 EDT 2004


A lot of DIY music guides stress the importance of live performances to 
promote the CD. What's your take -- is it a necessity?

Are there performance options for solo musicians that can't really perform 
their sample-laden music in the traditional live concert setting?




>From: MARK / negativland <markhosler at bellsouth.net>
>To: "Z-Train Music" <ztrainmusic at hotmail.com>, ginrai at masterforce.org, 
>cc-sampling at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: RE: [cc-sampling] Movie Samples In Songs
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:26:01 -0700
>
>At 2:03 PM -0700 4/22/04, Z-Train Music wrote:
>>Negativland (god bless them) is an exception to majority of record labels. 
>>The cost of litigation can easily sink a small label, so they tend to stay 
>>away from uncleared samples.
>
>Actually there are more than a few small and not so small labels who don't 
>worry about samples being cleared.
>
>>
>>To Mark's point, selling your own CDs via website, or indy record store 
>>will probably not land you in court. But you may be hard pressed to find a 
>>label that will sign you. Backing from a label seems to helps in a lot of 
>>different ways -- production, distribution, air play, music publication 
>>reviews, etc.
>
>
>Sometimes. They can also have onerous contracts that can be as bad or worse 
>than dealing with major labels. Be sure to have someone who can read such 
>things go over any contract you are presented with. I believe that 
>www.futureofmusic.org has a section on their site where they dissect a 
>typical record biz contract.
>
>
>>
>>...btw, how many submissions does negativland receive? how many of those 
>>do you sign?
>
>
>We don't really "sign" anyone.  Its more of a collective kinda thing, where 
>we have to a) really like the work, and b) the artists has to be pretty 
>much a self financed total do-it-yourselfer who needs just a bit of hand 
>holding and  decent distribution. The artists retain 100% ownership of 
>their work and are free to leave Seeland at any time. It's not a way to run 
>a profitable business, I can tell you that! It's mostly more of a "giving 
>back" to the community of audio weirdos from which we sprang.
>
>To see who else is on our label, check out our site. We only do a few of 
>these a year.
>
>Mark
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>From: MARK / negativland <markhosler at bellsouth.net>
>>>To: "Z-Train Music" <ztrainmusic at hotmail.com>, ginrai at masterforce.org, 
>>>cc-sampling at lists.ibiblio.org
>>>Subject: RE: [cc-sampling] Movie Samples In Songs
>>>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:14:50 -0700
>>>
>>>At 11:42 AM -0700 4/22/04, Z-Train Music wrote:
>>>>Ginrai,
>>>>
>>>>A lot of laptop musicians are emerging, and we all seem to have a lot 
>>>>questions around the legality and reality of sampling source audio from 
>>>>songs, movies, interviews, spoken word performances or television shows.
>>>>
>>>>I think this is how it goes:
>>>>
>>>>LEGALITY -- If you sample audio that is copyrighted by another entity, 
>>>>and you do not obtain a license for that sample, you have probably 
>>>>violated copyright law UNLESS: i) the sample comes from a work that is 
>>>>"Creatively" licensed (via Creative Commons or another form of open 
>>>>licensing); or ii) your use of the sample can be construed as a FAIR USE 
>>>>exception.
>>>
>>>
>>>As far as we are concerned, if's it's a fragmentary and/or transformative 
>>>use, it's ALL fair use! But that doesn't matter- they can still sue you 
>>>if they feel like it! But generally they wont feel like it unless you are 
>>>making large amounts of money.
>>>
>>>>  There are some parameters for what constitutes a Fair Use, and the 
>>>>biggest one is that you do not directly obtain money from the sale of 
>>>>the work containing the sample.
>>>>
>>>>REALITY -- Entertainment companies (and their lawyers) don't care about 
>>>>your sampling until there's a financial incentive for them to care. 
>>>>Sample anything you want, but don't expect to sell your work.  Give your 
>>>>music away as a demo to your friends and family, upload it to a file 
>>>>sharing network, send it to college radio stations, create a buzz about 
>>>>your self, go nuts.
>>>
>>>
>>>We sample like crazy, never ask permission, sell the stuff we make as 
>>>CDs, and haven't been sued since the early 90's. If you are a 
>>>do-it-yourselfer, I don't think you have anything to worry about if you 
>>>release it for sale. BUT - you can have trouble with the CD pressing 
>>>plants.
>>>
>>>Go here on our site to read about our own experiences with this -
>>>
>>>http://negativland.com/riaa/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>>mark
>>>
>>>>Maybe a professional music producer will hear your brilliant work and 
>>>>dub you the next big thing. Maybe not. You'll still have a cool sounding 
>>>>track. Create what you will.
>>>>
>>>>Some advantages to sampling unknown movies: 1) if and when you do 
>>>>license the sample, it may be cheaper than getting a license to sample 
>>>>Star Wars; 2) the film may be part of the Public Domain, in which case a 
>>>>license is not required to sample. If you're not planning on licensing 
>>>>the sample, then there aren't really any non-aesthetic reasons for 
>>>>mining unknown films.
>>>>
>>>>I'm sure someone out there will take issue with something I've said in 
>>>>this flood of words.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Andy
>>>>
>>>>>From: Ginrai <ginrai at masterforce.org>
>>>>>To: cc-sampling at lists.ibiblio.org
>>>>>Subject: [cc-sampling] Movie Samples In Songs
>>>>>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:36:13 -0700
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi there. New here. I'm a musician and I've been experimenting with 
>>>>>samples in my songs. Not musical samples, mind you, but snippets of 
>>>>>dialogue from movies. I've heard that a lot bands that use samples like 
>>>>>that just use them and hope no one calls them on it (and sometimes 
>>>>>they're called on it, like when Skinny Puppy got into trouble by using 
>>>>>a sample from Timothy Leery). It seems that it would hardly be worth 
>>>>>the effort and red tape and money to try to get permission for a clip 
>>>>>that lasts a second and isn't at all musical. I've looked through 
>>>>>Skinny Puppy liner notes and they never mention where the samples come 
>>>>>from. I've recognized a lot of them, Hitchcock movies, Scanners, A 
>>>>>Clockwork Orange, 2001. Some of them are popular and some aren't. From 
>>>>>a copyright perspective, I imagine it would be defendable in a lot of 
>>>>>cases under fair use. You could say it's your song commenting on the 
>>>>>crass commercial society that creaked the insincere movie and such.
>>>>>
>>>>>I guess my question is, should I just use movie samples and to hell 
>>>>>with it? Is it maybe safer to use samples from really obscure lame 
>>>>>movies that no one has seen? Any comments are welcome.
>>>>>
>>>>>-Ginrai
>>>>>
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>>>--
>>>© © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © ©
>>>AHOY THERE! I have changed my e-mail address and it is now -
>>>
>>>mark / negativland <markhosler at bellsouth.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>My old address at markhosler at charter.net is no longer being used.
>>
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>AHOY THERE! I have changed my e-mail address and it is now -
>
>mark / negativland <markhosler at bellsouth.net>
>
>
>My old address at markhosler at charter.net is no longer being used.

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