[cc-sampling] Movie Samples In Songs

MARK / negativland markhosler at bellsouth.net
Fri Apr 23 10:26:01 EDT 2004


At 2:03 PM -0700 4/22/04, Z-Train Music wrote:
>Negativland (god bless them) is an exception to 
>majority of record labels. The cost of 
>litigation can easily sink a small label, so 
>they tend to stay away from uncleared samples.

Actually there are more than a few small and not 
so small labels who don't worry about samples 
being cleared.

>
>To Mark's point, selling your own CDs via 
>website, or indy record store will probably not 
>land you in court. But you may be hard pressed 
>to find a label that will sign you. Backing from 
>a label seems to helps in a lot of different 
>ways -- production, distribution, air play, 
>music publication reviews, etc.


Sometimes. They can also have onerous contracts 
that can be as bad or worse than dealing with 
major labels. Be sure to have someone who can 
read such things go over any contract you are 
presented with. I believe that 
www.futureofmusic.org has a section on their site 
where they dissect a typical record biz contract.


>
>...btw, how many submissions does negativland 
>receive? how many of those do you sign?


We don't really "sign" anyone.  Its more of a 
collective kinda thing, where we have to a) 
really like the work, and b) the artists has to 
be pretty much a self financed total 
do-it-yourselfer who needs just a bit of hand 
holding and  decent distribution. The artists 
retain 100% ownership of their work and are free 
to leave Seeland at any time. It's not a way to 
run a profitable business, I can tell you that! 
It's mostly more of a "giving back" to the 
community of audio weirdos from which we sprang.

To see who else is on our label, check out our 
site. We only do a few of these a year.

Mark




>
>
>>From: MARK / negativland <markhosler at bellsouth.net>
>>To: "Z-Train Music" <ztrainmusic at hotmail.com>, 
>>ginrai at masterforce.org, 
>>cc-sampling at lists.ibiblio.org
>>Subject: RE: [cc-sampling] Movie Samples In Songs
>>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:14:50 -0700
>>
>>At 11:42 AM -0700 4/22/04, Z-Train Music wrote:
>>>Ginrai,
>>>
>>>A lot of laptop musicians are emerging, and we 
>>>all seem to have a lot questions around the 
>>>legality and reality of sampling source audio 
>>>from songs, movies, interviews, spoken word 
>>>performances or television shows.
>>>
>>>I think this is how it goes:
>>>
>>>LEGALITY -- If you sample audio that is 
>>>copyrighted by another entity, and you do not 
>>>obtain a license for that sample, you have 
>>>probably violated copyright law UNLESS: i) the 
>>>sample comes from a work that is "Creatively" 
>>>licensed (via Creative Commons or another form 
>>>of open licensing); or ii) your use of the 
>>>sample can be construed as a FAIR USE 
>>>exception.
>>
>>
>>As far as we are concerned, if's it's a 
>>fragmentary and/or transformative use, it's ALL 
>>fair use! But that doesn't matter- they can 
>>still sue you if they feel like it! But 
>>generally they wont feel like it unless you are 
>>making large amounts of money.
>>
>>>  There are some parameters for what 
>>>constitutes a Fair Use, and the biggest one is 
>>>that you do not directly obtain money from the 
>>>sale of the work containing the sample.
>>>
>>>REALITY -- Entertainment companies (and their 
>>>lawyers) don't care about your sampling until 
>>>there's a financial incentive for them to 
>>>care. Sample anything you want, but don't 
>>>expect to sell your work.  Give your music 
>>>away as a demo to your friends and family, 
>>>upload it to a file sharing network, send it 
>>>to college radio stations, create a buzz about 
>>>your self, go nuts.
>>
>>
>>We sample like crazy, never ask permission, 
>>sell the stuff we make as CDs, and haven't been 
>>sued since the early 90's. If you are a 
>>do-it-yourselfer, I don't think you have 
>>anything to worry about if you release it for 
>>sale. BUT - you can have trouble with the CD 
>>pressing plants.
>>
>>Go here on our site to read about our own experiences with this -
>>
>>http://negativland.com/riaa/index.html
>>
>>
>>mark
>>
>>>Maybe a professional music producer will hear 
>>>your brilliant work and dub you the next big 
>>>thing. Maybe not. You'll still have a cool 
>>>sounding track. Create what you will.
>>>
>>>Some advantages to sampling unknown movies: 1) 
>>>if and when you do license the sample, it may 
>>>be cheaper than getting a license to sample 
>>>Star Wars; 2) the film may be part of the 
>>>Public Domain, in which case a license is not 
>>>required to sample. If you're not planning on 
>>>licensing the sample, then there aren't really 
>>>any non-aesthetic reasons for mining unknown 
>>>films.
>>>
>>>I'm sure someone out there will take issue 
>>>with something I've said in this flood of 
>>>words.
>>>
>>>
>>>Andy
>>>
>>>>From: Ginrai <ginrai at masterforce.org>
>>>>To: cc-sampling at lists.ibiblio.org
>>>>Subject: [cc-sampling] Movie Samples In Songs
>>>>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:36:13 -0700
>>>>
>>>>Hi there. New here. I'm a musician and I've 
>>>>been experimenting with samples in my songs. 
>>>>Not musical samples, mind you, but snippets 
>>>>of dialogue from movies. I've heard that a 
>>>>lot bands that use samples like that just use 
>>>>them and hope no one calls them on it (and 
>>>>sometimes they're called on it, like when 
>>>>Skinny Puppy got into trouble by using a 
>>>>sample from Timothy Leery). It seems that it 
>>>>would hardly be worth the effort and red tape 
>>>>and money to try to get permission for a clip 
>>>>that lasts a second and isn't at all musical. 
>>>>I've looked through Skinny Puppy liner notes 
>>>>and they never mention where the samples come 
>>>>from. I've recognized a lot of them, 
>>>>Hitchcock movies, Scanners, A Clockwork 
>>>>Orange, 2001. Some of them are popular and 
>>>>some aren't. From a copyright perspective, I 
>>>>imagine it would be defendable in a lot of 
>>>>cases under fair use. You could say it's your 
>>>>song commenting on the crass commercial 
>>>>society that creaked the insincere movie and 
>>>>such.
>>>>
>>>>I guess my question is, should I just use 
>>>>movie samples and to hell with it? Is it 
>>>>maybe safer to use samples from really 
>>>>obscure lame movies that no one has seen? Any 
>>>>comments are welcome.
>>>>
>>>>-Ginrai
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>cc-sampling at lists.ibiblio.org
>>>>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-sampling
>>>
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>>
>>
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>>AHOY THERE! I have changed my e-mail address and it is now -
>>
>>mark / negativland <markhosler at bellsouth.net>
>>
>>
>>My old address at markhosler at charter.net is no longer being used.
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