[cc-sampling] Movie Samples In Songs

Z-Train Music ztrainmusic at hotmail.com
Thu Apr 22 17:03:29 EDT 2004

Negativland (god bless them) is an exception to majority of record labels. 
The cost of litigation can easily sink a small label, so they tend to stay 
away from uncleared samples.

To Mark's point, selling your own CDs via website, or indy record store will 
probably not land you in court. But you may be hard pressed to find a label 
that will sign you. Backing from a label seems to helps in a lot of 
different ways -- production, distribution, air play, music publication 
reviews, etc.

...btw, how many submissions does negativland receive? how many of those do 
you sign?

>From: MARK / negativland <markhosler at bellsouth.net>
>To: "Z-Train Music" <ztrainmusic at hotmail.com>, ginrai at masterforce.org, 
>cc-sampling at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: RE: [cc-sampling] Movie Samples In Songs
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:14:50 -0700
>At 11:42 AM -0700 4/22/04, Z-Train Music wrote:
>>A lot of laptop musicians are emerging, and we all seem to have a lot 
>>questions around the legality and reality of sampling source audio from 
>>songs, movies, interviews, spoken word performances or television shows.
>>I think this is how it goes:
>>LEGALITY -- If you sample audio that is copyrighted by another entity, and 
>>you do not obtain a license for that sample, you have probably violated 
>>copyright law UNLESS: i) the sample comes from a work that is "Creatively" 
>>licensed (via Creative Commons or another form of open licensing); or ii) 
>>your use of the sample can be construed as a FAIR USE exception.
>As far as we are concerned, if's it's a fragmentary and/or transformative 
>use, it's ALL fair use! But that doesn't matter- they can still sue you if 
>they feel like it! But generally they wont feel like it unless you are 
>making large amounts of money.
>>  There are some parameters for what constitutes a Fair Use, and the 
>>biggest one is that you do not directly obtain money from the sale of the 
>>work containing the sample.
>>REALITY -- Entertainment companies (and their lawyers) don't care about 
>>your sampling until there's a financial incentive for them to care. Sample 
>>anything you want, but don't expect to sell your work.  Give your music 
>>away as a demo to your friends and family, upload it to a file sharing 
>>network, send it to college radio stations, create a buzz about your self, 
>>go nuts.
>We sample like crazy, never ask permission, sell the stuff we make as CDs, 
>and haven't been sued since the early 90's. If you are a do-it-yourselfer, 
>I don't think you have anything to worry about if you release it for sale. 
>BUT - you can have trouble with the CD pressing plants.
>Go here on our site to read about our own experiences with this -
>>Maybe a professional music producer will hear your brilliant work and dub 
>>you the next big thing. Maybe not. You'll still have a cool sounding 
>>track. Create what you will.
>>Some advantages to sampling unknown movies: 1) if and when you do license 
>>the sample, it may be cheaper than getting a license to sample Star Wars; 
>>2) the film may be part of the Public Domain, in which case a license is 
>>not required to sample. If you're not planning on licensing the sample, 
>>then there aren't really any non-aesthetic reasons for mining unknown 
>>I'm sure someone out there will take issue with something I've said in 
>>this flood of words.
>>>From: Ginrai <ginrai at masterforce.org>
>>>To: cc-sampling at lists.ibiblio.org
>>>Subject: [cc-sampling] Movie Samples In Songs
>>>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:36:13 -0700
>>>Hi there. New here. I'm a musician and I've been experimenting with 
>>>samples in my songs. Not musical samples, mind you, but snippets of 
>>>dialogue from movies. I've heard that a lot bands that use samples like 
>>>that just use them and hope no one calls them on it (and sometimes 
>>>they're called on it, like when Skinny Puppy got into trouble by using a 
>>>sample from Timothy Leery). It seems that it would hardly be worth the 
>>>effort and red tape and money to try to get permission for a clip that 
>>>lasts a second and isn't at all musical. I've looked through Skinny Puppy 
>>>liner notes and they never mention where the samples come from. I've 
>>>recognized a lot of them, Hitchcock movies, Scanners, A Clockwork Orange, 
>>>2001. Some of them are popular and some aren't. From a copyright 
>>>perspective, I imagine it would be defendable in a lot of cases under 
>>>fair use. You could say it's your song commenting on the crass commercial 
>>>society that creaked the insincere movie and such.
>>>I guess my question is, should I just use movie samples and to hell with 
>>>it? Is it maybe safer to use samples from really obscure lame movies that 
>>>no one has seen? Any comments are welcome.
>>>cc-sampling mailing list
>>>cc-sampling at lists.ibiblio.org
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>© © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © ©
>AHOY THERE! I have changed my e-mail address and it is now -
>mark / negativland <markhosler at bellsouth.net>
>My old address at markhosler at charter.net is no longer being used.

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