[cc-licenses] TPMs & Open Access

Rob Myers rob at robmyers.org
Sat Jan 26 06:03:21 EST 2013


I think it would be good to ensure that watermarks/fingerprints can be removed. They have no expressive purpose as part of a work and are essentially spyware.

Nicholas Bentley <nicholas at commonrights.com> wrote:

>Thanks Sarah, Heather,
>
>It is good to confirm that these identifiers/fingerprinting would not
>form
>part of the TPM's referred to in the circumvention clause.
>
>Drew raises another interesting question though. If the
>identifiers/fingerprinting I was talking about were specifically there
>to
>identify the right holder / creator of the work and hence formed part
>of
>the attribution chain would anyone have the right to remove them as
>attribution is required under CC licenses.
>
>Regards,   Nicholas
>
>**
>
>On 23 January 2013 20:24, Sarah Pearson <sarah at creativecommons.org>
>wrote:
>
>> Hi Drew,
>>
>> The non-ND licenses grant permission to adapt the work, but it sounds
>like
>> the identifiers Nicholas is referring to would be something separate
>from
>> the copyrighted work. In any case, I should have used more precise
>> language. What I intended to convey was that the circumvention clause
>in
>> the current working language of 4.0d3 is not intended to address that
>> situation.
>>
>> Thanks for following up!
>> Sarah
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 6:51 AM, drew Roberts <zotz at 100jamz.com>
>wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday 22 January 2013 14:41:41 Sarah Pearson wrote:
>>> > Hi Nicholas,
>>> >
>>> > The only thing I would add to Heather's response is confirmation
>that
>>> > because fingerprinting/identifiers would not be TPMs under the
>license,
>>> > licensees would not have the right to remove those identifiers via
>the
>>> > circumvention clause in version 4.0.
>>>
>>> Why would they need a right to remove them? Is there something in
>the law
>>> currently which denies them this right?
>>>
>>> Except for ND, don't the licenses remove the legal prohibitions of
>>> altering
>>> the work in any way? (As a work?)
>>> >
>>> > best,
>>> > Sarah
>>>
>>> all the best,
>>>
>>> drew
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Heather Morrison
><hgmorris at sfu.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>> > > hi Nicholas,
>>> > >
>>> > > A TPM is what it says - a technological protection measure, a
>>> > > limitation on what you can do based on technology. Some common
>TPMs
>>> > > are when a publisher uses TPMs that make it impossible for you
>to
>>> > > print a document, to mark up a document, or to print more than a
>>> > > certain amount of pages. With CC licenses you cannot add TPMs to
>works
>>> > > that prevent uses allowed under the license. It's about changing
>the
>>> > > work per se as opposed to how you access it, which makes sense
>because
>>> > > CC deals with copyright.
>>> > >
>>> > > best,
>>> > >
>>> > > Heather Morrison, PhD
>>> > > Freedom for scholarship in the internet age
>>> > > https://theses.lib.sfu.ca/thesis/etd7530
>>> > >
>>> > > On 17-Jan-13, at 11:37 PM, Nicholas Bentley wrote:
>>> > > > Sarah, Greg, Heather,
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I have a follow-up question to this discussion of TPM's.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > If the file/work in question has has
>identifiers/fingerprinting
>>> > > > attached to it which help identify the right holder, author,
>CC
>>> > > > licensor, ...,  but does not restrict access to the file is
>that
>>> > > > considered a TPM? I assume the identifications, whatever,
>could be
>>> > > > construed as protecting the rights associated with the file
>but not
>>> > > > the file itself. But, does this mean that licensee does not
>have the
>>> > > > right under the 'TPM' clause to remove these identifiers if
>they
>>> > > > don't restrict access? Should a distinction be made between
>>> > > > technical measures protecting rights and those protecting
>access to
>>> > > > manifestations?
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Thanks for the clarification,
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Nicholas Bentley
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > On 17 January 2013 17:31, Greg Grossmeier
><greg at grossmeier.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> > > > Hello Heather,
>>> > > >
>>> > > > <quote name="Heather Morrison" date="2013-01-16"
>time="13:06:47
>>> > > > -0800">
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > One question that I have which comes up with respect to open
>>> access
>>> > > > > works: what about paywalls imposed by a downstream licensor
>that
>>> are
>>> > > > > not applied TO the work, but rather something people need to
>>> address
>>> > > > > in order to get TO the work. I'm not sure if it is even
>possible
>>> to
>>> > > > > preclude this - most of us have to pay for internet access,
>so one
>>> > > > > could argue that everything on the internet is behind a
>paywall.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > You point to the general underpinning of the issue; everything
>in
>>> the
>>> > > > world, unfortunately, costs something to gain access to, other
>than
>>> > > > air
>>> > > > (for now).
>>> > > >
>>> > > > It has never been the interpretation of CC, to my knowledge,
>that a
>>> > > > paywall (or other login mechanism) was a TPM.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Keep in mind the reason for the TPM clause is to address the
>DRM
>>> > > > issue,
>>> > > > which prevents people *who already have the file/work* from
>using it
>>> > > > in
>>> > > > ways that the license allows. It isn't about people gaining
>access
>>> to
>>> > > > the file/work in the first place.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Best,
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Greg
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > >
>>> > > > | Greg Grossmeier            GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
>>> > > > | http://grossmeier.net           A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |
>>> > > >
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>>
>>
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>
>
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