[cc-licenses] TPMs & Open Access

drew Roberts zotz at 100jamz.com
Thu Jan 24 10:22:34 EST 2013


On Wednesday 23 January 2013 14:24:19 Sarah Pearson wrote:
> Hi Drew,
>
> The non-ND licenses grant permission to adapt the work, but it sounds like
> the identifiers Nicholas is referring to would be something separate from
> the copyrighted work. In any case, I should have used more precise
> language. What I intended to convey was that the circumvention clause in
> the current working language of 4.0d3 is not intended to address that
> situation.

Speaking from a level of ignorance here but aren't they actually embedded in 
the work in a hidden way that makes it difficult / "impossible" to remove?

At least I took it that was the sort of thing being referred to due to the use 
of fingerprinting. If what was meant wan something more akin to metadata 
stored in something like id3 tags, I need to think some more.

I think the first question would still be, what in law or the license prevents 
such removal now?
>
> Thanks for following up!
> Sarah

all the best,

drew
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 6:51 AM, drew Roberts <zotz at 100jamz.com> wrote:
> > On Tuesday 22 January 2013 14:41:41 Sarah Pearson wrote:
> > > Hi Nicholas,
> > >
> > > The only thing I would add to Heather's response is confirmation that
> > > because fingerprinting/identifiers would not be TPMs under the license,
> > > licensees would not have the right to remove those identifiers via the
> > > circumvention clause in version 4.0.
> >
> > Why would they need a right to remove them? Is there something in the law
> > currently which denies them this right?
> >
> > Except for ND, don't the licenses remove the legal prohibitions of
> > altering the work in any way? (As a work?)
> >
> > > best,
> > > Sarah
> >
> > all the best,
> >
> > drew
> >
> > > On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Heather Morrison <hgmorris at sfu.ca>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > hi Nicholas,
> > > >
> > > > A TPM is what it says - a technological protection measure, a
> > > > limitation on what you can do based on technology. Some common TPMs
> > > > are when a publisher uses TPMs that make it impossible for you to
> > > > print a document, to mark up a document, or to print more than a
> > > > certain amount of pages. With CC licenses you cannot add TPMs to
> > > > works that prevent uses allowed under the license. It's about
> > > > changing the work per se as opposed to how you access it, which makes
> > > > sense because CC deals with copyright.
> > > >
> > > > best,
> > > >
> > > > Heather Morrison, PhD
> > > > Freedom for scholarship in the internet age
> > > > https://theses.lib.sfu.ca/thesis/etd7530
> > > >
> > > > On 17-Jan-13, at 11:37 PM, Nicholas Bentley wrote:
> > > > > Sarah, Greg, Heather,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a follow-up question to this discussion of TPM's.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the file/work in question has has identifiers/fingerprinting
> > > > > attached to it which help identify the right holder, author, CC
> > > > > licensor, ...,  but does not restrict access to the file is that
> > > > > considered a TPM? I assume the identifications, whatever, could be
> > > > > construed as protecting the rights associated with the file but not
> > > > > the file itself. But, does this mean that licensee does not have
> > > > > the right under the 'TPM' clause to remove these identifiers if
> > > > > they don't restrict access? Should a distinction be made between
> > > > > technical measures protecting rights and those protecting access to
> > > > > manifestations?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the clarification,
> > > > >
> > > > > Nicholas Bentley
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 17 January 2013 17:31, Greg Grossmeier <greg at grossmeier.net>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > > Hello Heather,
> > > > >
> > > > > <quote name="Heather Morrison" date="2013-01-16" time="13:06:47
> > > > > -0800">
> > > > >
> > > > > > One question that I have which comes up with respect to open
> > > > > > access works: what about paywalls imposed by a downstream
> > > > > > licensor that
> >
> > are
> >
> > > > > > not applied TO the work, but rather something people need to
> >
> > address
> >
> > > > > > in order to get TO the work. I'm not sure if it is even possible
> > > > > > to preclude this - most of us have to pay for internet access, so
> > > > > > one could argue that everything on the internet is behind a
> > > > > > paywall.
> > > > >
> > > > > You point to the general underpinning of the issue; everything in
> > > > > the world, unfortunately, costs something to gain access to, other
> > > > > than air
> > > > > (for now).
> > > > >
> > > > > It has never been the interpretation of CC, to my knowledge, that a
> > > > > paywall (or other login mechanism) was a TPM.
> > > > >
> > > > > Keep in mind the reason for the TPM clause is to address the DRM
> > > > > issue,
> > > > > which prevents people *who already have the file/work* from using
> > > > > it in
> > > > > ways that the license allows. It isn't about people gaining access
> > > > > to the file/work in the first place.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > | Greg Grossmeier            GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
> > > > > | http://grossmeier.net           A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |
> > > > >
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