[cc-community] Rant about CC licenses

Bruce Kingsbury zcat at zcat.geek.nz
Wed Dec 18 20:29:38 EST 2013

That's a metadata problem.

Probably the best way of dealing with it is to come up with a standard
copyright/copyleft XML format flexible enough to recognize timed release
and a way of tagging any file format with said XML. Then we can write
search engines that interpret that format so a search for public domain
emails will identify Gisle's email correctly. It will only show un in a
CC-BY search today, it will show up in a search for CC0 messages next year
because we read the XML and know that it's CC0 for any date after 20131231.

This is a problem to be solved by programmers, not by lawyers or new
licenses. The existing licenses handle this perfectly well.

On 19 December 2013 13:47, Mitar <mmitar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi!
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Eric Hellman <eric at hellman.net> wrote:
> > Just to be clear, in this program (to launch in 2014), there is no
> uncertain event. Each copy of the book has an fixed date at which it
> becomes CC. Obviously we need work on the explanation/documentation.
> What about how to store this in metadata? So CC licenses are currently
> still pretty bad with machine support. (Even Lessig commented on that
> in Buenos Aires.) Please do not forget about that.
> Mitar
> > Also,  the replaced license is not a CC license; there's no revocation.
> I agree that ail a CC license, the dated license would need to be an
> additional option for the licensee.
> >
> > On Dec 18, 2013, at 12:39 PM, Engel Nyst <engel.nyst at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/18/2013 04:34 PM, Eric Hellman wrote:
> >>> Engel,
> >>>
> >>> The language came from my lawyer; I had a similar reaction as you
> >>> did, but legal language is not my field. I'd be very interested to
> >>> hear other opinions!
> >>>
> >>> My understanding is that any of the CC licenses depend for their
> >>> force on the licensee being able to document the proper conveyance of
> >>> the license, which is problematic if they have not been conveyed the
> >>> license by the rights holder. So in practice, there's not so much
> >>> difference. At least until we get some cryptographic signing
> >>> conventions in place.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I didn't intend to suggest there is a (soluble) problem for unglue.it.
> >> There is an /uncertain/ future event, which licensing terms depend upon.
> >> What's more, the event depends on someone (unglue.it at least) deciding
> >> when the target is met, a licensee cannot know by themselves when it
> >> happens. Not on their own, anyway. I think it makes sense there has to
> >> be an additional release under a CC license. I don't see how one could
> >> bake in such complex terms into a single license.
> >>
> >> What matter here, seem to be a) the terms on the work licensees receive
> >> (if they receive it before target is met), b) the contract between
> >> unglue.it and authors/publishers, c) the terms between unglue.it and
> >> readers who pledge, d) the terms prior licensees and future licensees
> >> get on the work after the target is met.
> >> I'm not sure from which of these is the snippet example taken, it looks
> >> like a), perhaps c), part of d).
> >>
> >>
> >> On the other hand, the CC-X idea depends on a /certain/ future event,
> >> and a simple event, too. Every licensee can establish when the time,
> >> marked clearly, has passed. What's more, the work is already under CC
> >> licenses, so, IMHO, there isn't that much practical difference for what
> >> people can do, between them and CC0. People who aren't sure or don't
> >> check if it's CC0 can just use it under the older terms.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> ~ "Excuse me, Professor Lessig, but may I ask you to sign this CLA, so
> that we have legally your permission to distribute your CC-licensed words?"
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> --
> http://mitar.tnode.com/
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