[cc-community] NC/ND

drew Roberts zotz at 100jamz.com
Thu Dec 15 08:09:11 EST 2011

On Wednesday 14 December 2011 16:11:49 Mike Linksvayer wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 12:24 PM, Anthony <osm at inbox.org> wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:03 PM, drew Roberts <zotz at 100jamz.com> wrote:
> >> Many people are fine with non-Free culture. That does not mean they walk
> >> hand in hand with those who are concerned with Free culture.
> >
> > I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive.  Can't someone be fine
> > with non-Free culture, but also be concerned with Free culture?  Sure,
> > RMS doesn't fit under this category, but many other people do.
> RMS does fit in this category, for come categories of culture
> (software not among them, obviously). See
> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/copyright-versus-community.html (search
> for "categories"). It's an interesting delineation, but not all that
> well known nor agreed with, AFAICT. Plenty of people vehemently
> disagree, saying that the same freedoms RMS wants for "functional"
> works need to be available for all categories of work, eg recently
> http://blog.ninapaley.com/2011/07/04/rantifesto/

And some of us see this need even though it is not our biggest concern in the 
area. I for one see that for copyright to have the teeth the "major" players 
want and claim they need these days, democracy and civil liberties have to 

You can't stop people from sending each other copies of things unless you 
snoop on everyone for one thing. Check out the legal changes and proposed 
changes that affect copyrights over the past decade or so. Are things getting 

This is one reason I think we need a strong and vibrant Free and copyleft 
community. To provide a tempting pool that those pushing for stronger and 
longer copyrights will want to avail themselves of. One that they can't use 
and we can. One that might provide pressure for shorter copyright terms and 
other needed reforms.
> In any case, it is certainly possible to be concerned with both free
> and non-free culture, in a non-, or at least not-very-oppositional
> fashion.

And even though I think those cool with non-Free culture are wrong, I would 
rather not be not-very-oppositional if we could have it so that we were not 
lumped together all the time. I feel it is this lumping together that causes 
much of the tension and troubles.

all the best,


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