[cc-community] Copyleft And Commerce

drew Roberts zotz at 100jamz.com
Thu May 25 22:19:43 EDT 2006


On Thursday 25 May 2006 08:32 pm, Greg London wrote:
> > There really should be a Free Music Foundation that pays session
> > musicians an honest rate to lay down drum and guitar tracks,
> > commissions songwriters to perform acapellas, and gets the
> > documentation required to prove that the tracks are clean for use in
> > other BY-SA work. They may accept contributions from commercial
> > projects *if* they pass due diligence. This really is the sort of
> > project that is needed, there are artistic and video and literary
> > equivalents that are needed as well.

Why would such a project have a greater need for due dilligence than 
wikipedie? And would it be harmed more by someone trying to poison it?

Mind you, if something like that can get off the ground, I am all for it.

Will no one comment of the idea of PBS and NPR funding sources stipulating 
copyleft licenses as a requirement for future funding?
>
> I agree, and I see problems in teh way:
>
> (1) What is the minimum amount of time that a person needs to
> invest to make a contribution to such a project?
> How does that compare to the amount of time that it takes
> a complete newbie to contribute a minimal improvement to
> wikipedia?

One problem with wikipedia that has discouraged me from further contributions 
is that they get rid of your work for reasons that are to my mind not right. 
They have done this to me on numerous occasions from what I could tell.

I noticed areas where I wanted information that were not covered. I put up 
some basic info in the hopes that those with more knowledge in the area would 
see the lacking current page and make it better. Seems they didn't thin it 
was a proper encyclopedia article and poof. (That is my take. They may have a 
different story.)
>
> A typo on wikipedia can be fixed in seconds.
> A small article contribution might take several minutes.

See what I posted above. I don't think this is so unless you are perhaps a 
seasoned contributor and know the ropes. (It could be so thoug if there was a 
different policy in place.)

> The smallest guitar track would take half an hour maybe?

Nope, that could be created in five or ten minutes.


> (assuming Joe Guitar Player happened to surf to the site
> for the first time and decided he wanted to contribute
> something, he'd have to set up his gear, pipe it to his
> computer, play, record, do a couple takes to get it just
> right, then send it into the site.)

Some people live with their gear set up. (I would but I don't trust the local 
electric company.)
>
> (2) What is the minimum amount of equipment needed to make
> a contribution to such a project? Compared to wikipedia?

Well. Let's assume they have a computer. (Granted, one for recording would 
probably want a little more oomph.)

Samson makes a USB Studio Condenser Mic.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--SAMC01U

$79.95

Software can be had libre and gratis if needed.

I assume that would work with linux. I need to get one to check. What I use 
now is an Alesis MultiMix 8USB

http://www.zzounds.com/item--ALEMULTIMIX8USB

$149.00

and a shure sm58

http://www.zzounds.com/item--SHUSM58

$99.95

Definately works with linux. (Alsa, jack, ardour.)

>
> Wikipedia requires a computer and internet connection.
> A music project requires that, plus, music equipment,
> recording equipment, decent microphones, and maybe a
> system that is set up some distance away from the computer
> so that the fricken fan noise doesn't get into the track.

The above is all a singer would need. let's assume the musician already has 
his instruments. If not, people around are known to use an old saw and a 
screw driver.


Or you could make some:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=homemade+musical+instruments&btnG=Search

http://www.rhythmweb.com/homemade/

http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/explore/homemademusic.htm

>
> (3) What is the goal that would motivate large numbers
> of people to make small contributions to this project?
>
> Linux promises better software through transparency.
> All bugs are shallow. Wikipedia promises the world
> of information freely available on the net, and people
> get to write about the topics that are important to them.
>
> Would free music be better sounding than all rights reserved?

I don't know where a person wanting to learn can get songs in multitrack form. 
This would allow learning mixing and mastering. it would allow for the 
addition and, or replacements of parts. So much. I personally think this 
could catch on. We shall see.

> Would the goal be bigger, like free movies?
> Would the movies be better?

Perhaps just ones that you could share or use parts of without the threat of 
going to jail would be enough.
>
>
> I don't know the solutions to these problems,
> but I think they are solvable. 

I do too. I keep thinking and talking.

> And I think 
> they need to be solved before a free music
> project could ever be successful on the same
> level as linux or wikipedia.

It would not have to succeed on that level to be a hugh success though.
>
> (1) minimum time to contribute needs to make
> it easy for someone to find music they're
> interested in contributing to. If a newbie
> musician could record a track, upload it to
> the site, have it analyzed by some software,
> and figure out where similar music is, then
> that might help. Maybe a guitarist could upload
> a guitar track, and then software could find
> possible drum tracks that could go with it.

Well, that depends. If you got a good amount of songs put out as both stereo 
mixes and as multitrack (ardour) project files (or just individual wav files 
for each track) people could use something like the old napster, or irate 
radio, or even word of mouth to find something they like. From there, pull 
down the big project and add or change a track. (Even something as small as a 
harmony part to a chorus.)

>
> The genre "rock" is simply too big and too
> varied to help. I've been looking for music
> for a video project idea I have and have been
> completely overwhelmed trying to find something
> that has a certain feel to it.

Have you thought of trying the reverse direction? Put the video out under a 
BY-SA license and ask for songs to fit?
>
> (2) not much you can do about that, you need
> a guitar to make a guitar track. but it might
> help to have the above mentioned software
> so that people with no instruments could
> start with one track they like, and then find
> other tracks that would fit, and/or find
> artists who have uploaded similar tracks
> and put a request out for a new track.

Software like that would be nice indeed.
>
> (3) A song project is too small.
> An album project might be a good seed.
> Or maybe a small set of albums.
> But a seed for what? It has to be big
> enough to inspire people to contribute
> and small enough to be achievable.

Well, as a start, how about a collection of each country's, each ethnic 
group's traditional music, newly recorded and under a BY-SA license?

all the best,

drew
-- 
http://www.ourmedia.org/node/145261
Record a song and you might win $1,000.00
http://www.ourmedia.org/user/17145




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