[b-hebrew] 1kgs10

Nir cohen - Prof. Mat. nir at ccet.ufrn.br
Mon Jul 1 13:19:11 EDT 2013

On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 12:13:38 -0400 (EDT), JimStinehart wrote
dear jim,

first point:

> You wrote:  “where did you get the strange idea that solomon exported horses? certainly not from 1 kings 10. all it says is 1) solomon accrued horses; 2) the origin of
> the horse IMPORT (not EXPORT, mind you!) was so-ans-so; 3) horses and chariots 
> were very expensive. the rest is deduction which is not in the text.”
> I got that from I Kings 10: 29.  The prior verse, I Kings 10: 28, tells where King Solomon got horses.  Then I Kings 10:29 says that King Solomon YC( horses to Hurrian [XTY : H-XT-YM] rulers and other rulers in Syria.  YC( means “to exit, go forth, or go out”, and hence can mean “export”, but could not mean “import”.  Most translations use the word “exported” here, including New International Version, English Standard Version, and the Jewish Publication Society (1985).  As one typical translation, here is the English Standard Version translation of I Kings 10: 28-29: 
> “28 And Solomon's import of horses was from Egypt and Kue, and the king's traders received them from Kue at a price. 29 A chariot could be imported from Egypt for 600 shekels of silver and a horse for 150, and so through the king's traders they were exported to all the kings of the Hittites and the kings of Syria.”

not all the translators understand it this way. in mekhon mamre i find the more correct

 כט  וַתַּעֲלֶה וַתֵּצֵא מֶרְכָּבָה מִמִּצְרַיִם, בְּשֵׁשׁ מֵאוֹת כֶּסֶף, וְסוּס, בַּחֲמִשִּׁים וּמֵאָה; וְכֵן לְכָל-מַלְכֵי הַחִתִּים, וּלְמַלְכֵי אֲרָם--בְּיָדָם יֹצִאוּ.  {פ}  29 And a chariot came up and went out of Egypt for six hundred shekels of silver, and a horse for a hundred and fifty; and so for all the kings of the Hittites, and for the kings of Aram, did they bring them out by their means. {P}

where the word EXPORT is not mentioned. again: understanding YC) as export is an interpretation, it is nowhere in the text.

2. the word YC) in the sense of "export" is modern - as far as i know, it has never been used in this sense in the bible, except for your 
claim that it is used here. in fact, it is always used as "go out, leave", and your assumption that "leave" means "leave canaan" is a mere 
assumption which is not in the text.

it is my understanding of the text only that "the same traders who sold to solomon also sold to these other kings". this is the meaning of WKN in 1kgs 10:29.


> You at least agree that I Kings 10 is talking about “overspending and luxury”.  So then why in the world mention small-time, oh-so-modest Que/Kue in southeast Anatolia?

pls look at the following site and map:

please look at the region map at the time. there is abs. no sense to import horses and chariots from turkey to israel and then sell them bask to syria. no, solomon
did not buy horses from turkey and sell them to syria.

if we locate solomon at the 10th century (there is some well known uncertainty here), QWH in turkey at least makes temporal sense. and, while i may agree with you that the bible designs HTY to the hurrians in the patriarchs time, i disagree about solomon's time, where the bible was probably referring to the neo-hittites, see the same map and site.

still, economically and geographically it would make much more sense if the horses came from egypt with which solomon had excellent political relations.



i did not even bother read your evidence in favor of china. if you look at the very same map you will immediately see the absurdity of taking a horse
through deserts and pirates to canaan, and then selling it to syria, which is on the silk route anyway. one more item in a long list of brilliant 
maverick ideas which simply make no sense.

>>>> If one is talking about “overspending and luxury” in almost mythical proportions here, then to me, in that context, it’s more likely that QW-H is referring to the semi-legendary place where domesticated horses may have originated:  Qijia in truly ancient China.  Que is way too prosaic for this passage.  Moreover, I don’t think Que was ever associated with horses anyway.  If you’re going to brag that King Solomon was so great that he was in position to export horses to “Hurrians”, that is, to the successors to the ancient Hurrians who had been world-famous in their bygone day (the Late Bronze Age) for being the finest horsemen in the world, with the finest horses for their state-of-the-art horse-drawn chariots, then you wouldn’t say that Solomon got those excellent horses from small-time, oh-so-modest Que, would you?  

> I understand that Que was in historical existence in the 10th century BCE, whereas the Qijia culture, which is sometimes credited with bringing the domesticated horse to the Eurasian steppe (Hurrian country), was many centuries in the past by then.  But a Biblical author who is using XTY : H-XT-YM as a colorful reference to the modern-day successors to the Hurrians, who were already 400 years in the past by the time of King Solomon, could also refer to the semi-legendary reputed home of domesticated horses, in far-off China, as allegedly being the place where Solomon got the world’s finest horses.  To me, that fits this passage’s theme of “overspending and luxury” better than does a prosaic reference to historical Que.

i think you answer your own questions correctly: biblical QWH is not in china. and HTY in solomon's time is not hurrian but neo-hittite. 
> Last but not least, consider linguistics.  At the Late Bronze Age Hurrian province of Nuzi, the Hurrian personal name Qa-we-enni is attested;  -enni is a standard Hurrian suffix, and the root Qa-we is not a Hurrian common word or otherwise known in Hurrian.  Is Qa-we in Hurrian coming from the same place as QW-H in Hebrew [where -H may likely be a Hebrew ending]?  Qa-we in Hurrian, and the Biblical Hebrew letters QW/qof-vav, are a perfect linguistic match, but what are they referencing?  Are they possibly referencing the long-gone, semi-legendary place of origin of all domesticated horses, namely the Qijia culture in truly ancient China?  To me, that meaning would make perfect sense, in context, (i) for a Hurrian name, with the Hurrians being the premier horsemen of their day, and (ii) for I Kings 10: 28-29, where an integral part of the “overspending and luxury” for which King Solomon was duly famous/infamous was that Solomon allegedly got the world’s finest ho
 rses from the very place where horses had first been domesticated, and then Solomon exported those fine horses to the modern-day successors in Syria of the people who formerly had been the finest horsemen in the world:  the Hurrians.  
> Who cares about small-time historical Que and the small-time historical Neo-Hittite kingdoms [which the academic community says are the intended references here]?  In my opinion, King Solomon is being portrayed here at I Kings 10: 28-29 as being much bigger and grander than that.  Forget Que.  Think big.  After all, it’s King Solomon we’re talking about here.

nir cohen

Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org)

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/attachments/20130701/67697aaa/attachment.html 

More information about the b-hebrew mailing list