[b-hebrew] By Whose God did Goliath Curse

Stephen Shead sshead.email at gmail.com
Fri Aug 2 20:48:44 EDT 2013

Sorry, I just noticed that in my second point, I failed to mention up front
that I was talking about "the final אשׁר חרפת" in 1 Sam 17:45. Hopefully
that became clear a paragraph or so later, but apologies for the oversight.

Stephen Shead
Centro de Estudios Pastorales
Santiago, Chile

On 2 August 2013 17:14, Stephen Shead <sshead.email at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ken,
> A small response to the other texts you listed with אלהיו with a
> subject/object from outside Israel: The difference with 1 Sam 17:43 is that
> באלהיו is immediately preceded by "David". In all the other cases you
> listed, even where there is some other candidate in the context whose
> "god/s" might possibly be on view (e.g. Jehoiakim in Dan 1:2 or Jonah in
> Jon 1:5), there are not named immediately before באלהיו. So I'm not sure
> that list has much weight for considering this case.
> And a very minor point I noticed, which has nothing to do with Ken's reply
> and is probably irrelevant to the topic anyway: I notice that all the
> English translations render the final אשׁר חרפת as "whom you have defied" -
> presumably referring to YHWH. But every other reference to Goliath's
> defiance (with חרף) explicitly gives the "ranks" (מערכות, battle lines) of
> Israel as the object:
> v.10 "I defy the ranks of Israel"
> v.25 "to defy Israel"
> v.26 "he defies the ranks of the living God"
> v.36 "he defies the ranks of the living God"
> So in v. 45, I presume the natural antecedent of אשׁר would simply
> be מערכות ישׂראל, rather than going all the way back to YHWH.
> (Interestingly, the only translation I saw which opts for that is the
> Spanish *Nueva Versión Internacional*, which uses a plural relative
> pronoun agreeing with "armies".)
> Stephen Shead
> Centro de Estudios Pastorales
> Santiago, Chile
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Ken Penner <kpenner at stfx.ca>
>> To: Yigal Levin <Yigal.Levin at biu.ac.il>, "b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org" <
>> b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:59:35 -0300
>> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] By Whose God did Goliath Curse
>> Relevant texts (in which אֱלֹהָיו is not preceded by the tetragrammaton;
>> the subject or object is not from Israel) include:****
>> Daniel 1:2 //Ezra 1:7****
>> 2 Kings 19:37//Isaiah 37:38//2 Chron 32:21****
>> Isaiah 8:19****
>> Jonah 1:5****
>> 2 Kings 17:29****
>> Micah 4:5****
>> Ezra 1:3****
>> ** **
>> The pattern seems to be that the suffixed pronoun consistently refers to
>> the subject of the verb.****
>> ****
>> “*And the Lord gave Jehoiakim the king of Judah into his hand and some
>> of the utensils of the temple of God, and he brought them to the land of
>> Shinar to the temple of his gods, and he brought the utensils to the
>> treasury of his gods.*” (Daniel 1:2, LEB) ****
>> “*And Cyrus the king brought out the objects of the house of Yahweh that
>> Nebuchadnezzar had brought from Jerusalem and placed in the house of his
>> gods.*” (Ezra 1:7, LEB) ****
>> “*It happened that he was worshiping in the temple of Nisroch his god,
>> and Adrammelech and Sharezer struck him with the sword. Then they escaped
>> into the land of Ararat, and Esarhaddon his son became king in his place.
>> *” (2 Kings 19:37, LEB) ****
>> “*And this happened: he was bowing in worship in the house of Nisroch his
>> god, and Adrammelech and Sharezer, his sons, struck him with the sword.
>> And they themselves escaped to the land of Ararat, and Esar-haddon his son
>> reigned as king in his place.*” (Isaiah 37:38, LEB) ****
>> “*Then Yahweh sent an angel, and he destroyed every mighty warrior of
>> strength, commander, and officer in the camp of the king of Assyria. And he
>> returned with shamed face to his land and went into the house of his god.
>> And some of the offspring of his loins fell upon him there with the sword.
>> *” (2 Chronicles 32:21, LEB) ****
>> “*Now if they tell you, “Consult the ghosts and the spirits, those who
>> chirp and those who mutter. Should not a people consult its gods, the
>> dead on behalf of the living,*” (Isaiah 8:19, LEB) ****
>> “*And the mariners were afraid, and each cried out to his god. And they
>> threw the contents that were in the merchant ship into the sea to lighten
>> it for them. And meanwhile Jonah went down into the hold of the vessel and
>> lay down and fell asleep.*” (Jonah 1:5, LEB) ****
>> “*Yet every nation was making their gods, and they put them in the
>> shrine of the high places that the Samaritans had made, every nation in
>> their cities in which they were living.*” (2 Kings 17:29, LEB) ****
>>  “*For all the nations walk, each in the name of its god, but we will
>> walk in the name of Yahweh our God, forever and ever.*” (Micah 4:5, LEB)
>> ****
>> “*Whoever among you who is from all of his people, may his God be with
>> him and may he go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and may he build the
>> house of Yahweh, the God of Israel. He is the God who is in Jerusalem.*”
>> (Ezra 1:3, LEB) ****
>> ** **
>> Ken M. Penner, Ph.D.****
>> Associate Professor, Religious Studies****
>> 2329 Notre Dame Avenue, 409 Nicholson Tower****
>> St. Francis Xavier University****
>> Antigonish, NS  B2G 2W5****
>> Canada****
>> (902)867-2265****
>> kpenner at stfx.ca****
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