[b-hebrew] Fw: Job 38:8 ??
hadeesh at sbcglobal.net
Tue Dec 4 15:37:41 EST 2012
Karl and Chavoux,
First, let me apologize. My son had a febrile seizure last night and we spent
most of the night in the ER. He is and will be OK - thank G-d.
I am a bit wiped out today and will not really be able to give this discussion
alot of further attention.
I think we are working on a very limited amount of data. Although, I agree with
Karl that the Siboleth / Shibolet issue is a play on dialectical differences. I
also believe that there is a much deeper spiritual play on words there.
Siboleth means something like "burden" and Shibolet means something like
"path." So which do you consider the path of haShem, a burden and you die, a
path and you successfully pass through. Personally, no matter how challenging
life tends to be, I consider it a path!
Thanks for your patience,
From: K Randolph <kwrandolph at gmail.com>
To: David Kolinsky <hadeesh at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: B-Hebrew <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tue, December 4, 2012 11:10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Fw: Job 38:8 ??
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 2:05 PM, David Kolinsky <hadeesh at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>I am not convinced that the Sin and the Shin were pronounced the same in
I noticed that there are examples like $M “there, that place” coming from %YM
“to place” and other words sometimes spelled with a sin, sometimes with a shin,
but because this was never a research program I didn’t work up a list of these
But there is reasonable evidence that the letter for Het was used for two
different sounds (Het and Chet) and that the letter for Ayin (Ayin and Gayin)
also (ex: Gamorra and Gaza).
I don’t see any evidence for these within Biblical Hebrew. Rather I suspect that
these speculations come from post-Biblical Hebrew and/or cognate languages.
I believe that the Shin probably was for "Sh" and that when it was pronounced
Sin that that was very similar to a voiceless alveolar lateral fricative.
I see no evidence that they were pronounced differently until during and after
the Babylonian Exile, which would mean that Aramaic speaking Jews imported these
distinctions from Aramaic.
>Curious, what is the evidence that the Samekh was like an "X"?
I noticed that in the name “Artaxerxes” that the second “X” is spelled with a
Samekh in Ezra and Nehemiah. The first “X” is spelled with a softer gutteral, a
Chet, followed by a Sin, which would have sounded like an “X” to Greek ears.
Incidentally, Ezra spelled “Artaxerxes” with two Sins in Aramaic, suggesting
that perhaps that Aramaic didn’t have a “X” phoneme at that time? And as Jews
grew up speaking Aramaic without a “X” phoneme that they changed the Samekh to a
Karl W. Randolph.
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