[b-hebrew] a much bigger and relevant issue not exactly about Caleb
yishalom at sbcglobal.net
Tue Sep 20 00:11:07 EDT 2011
Unfortunately, I rarely have enough time to thoroughly address your very valid points. Additionally, the paradigm that you seem to be working from is clearly differently than my own. But I would like to make a few points that I nevertheless know beforehand that you will reject them.
You are entirely correct that there is also a root שרה that means "to let loose,
immerse, soak, steep, saturate" as in (Jr15:11) and you may even be correct regarding Jb 37:3 (I dont have time to examine it fully right now).
However, not every cognate is the same root, it may just appear to be such.
Consider the root (RM which has three sources
1 - to heap up which comes from Ayin + RWM (be high)
2 - to be naked which come from (RH (naked) + M
3 - to be deceptive, cunning from Ayin + RMH (deceive)
Likewise ShWR => ShRH has two sources
1 - to fix upon (visually and physically) from Sh + YRH (to aim, set < shoot, throw, penetrate)
2 - to set loose, immerse, soak, steep, saturate from Sh + RWH (pour forth, water)
So in short, not all cognates are equal or trully the same root. It seems that at times you disallow these differences that may be found in a trilateral in root. Your refusal to see that )ShR is actually two roots is evidence for that.
1 - to confirm, celebrate, be happy ? + ShRH (be firm upon)
2 - to go intentionally, directly from ? + ShWR (fix upon visually)
*obviously the correctness of my derivations stands on less firm ground than the examples above
On your point regarding שיר to sing, the wikipedia makes this statement under the heading of singing > resonance "Various terms related to the resonation process include amplification,
enrichment, enlargement, improvement, intensification, and prolongation, (although in strictly scientific usage acoustic authorities would
question most of them.) ((parenthesis added by me and included so as not to be accused of deception))
I would argue that the most primitive understanding of singing would be less sophisticated where a PROLONGATION of tone would best describe what the essence of singing is. Prolongation basically being the same as "holding a note firm."
Lastly given the choice between "let loose" and "focusing a thing" I think a missile would be derived from the latter rather than the former. A missile "let loose" is of no value if it is
--- On Mon, 9/19/11, K Randolph <kwrandolph at gmail.com> wrote:
From: K Randolph <kwrandolph at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] a much bigger and relevant issue not exactly about Caleb
To: "David Kolinsky" <yishalom at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: "B-Hebrew" <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Monday, September 19, 2011, 3:35 PM
On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 10:20 PM, David Kolinsky <yishalom at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Since Sarai, Sarah, and Yisrael are all based on the root SRH lets look at that only for now.
SRH to fix upon:
in wrestling there are takedowns, controls (holds), and reversals -
in Hebrew "the hold" is described by the verb SRH to wrestle (Gn32:29), (Hs12:4);
This is found in only three verses, and does it really have the meaning of grappling, or of throwing dust on the other to blind them so they could be knocked down and defeated?
שרה to strive as in wrestling Gn 32:29, Ho 12:4, 5
the reversals and takedowns by ?BQ (entangle with eachother) to wrestle (Gn32:25,26)
Referring to a “dust-up”
אבק to get dusty (from fighting, traveling) ⇒ to wrestle
ShWR means (hold firmly in one's sights) to get a fix on (see)
to behold (Jb36:24) in Polael
שור to gaze (upon)
S?R in Arabic = set out, move along, march, get going, be headed for s.th, be directed / oriented, be guided by; route
Arabic meaning is irrelevant.
ShRR = to direct (Jb37:3)
שרה to let loose Jb 37:3
With a derivative:שריה missile, can be an arrow from a bow, stone from a sling, etc. ?? αλ Jb 41:18
You may be thinking of another word:שרר to chain in ?? ⇒ to be a prince ⇒ to rule, this is a rule that is not law making, which the king did, but the enforcement of laws, keeping the people in line metaphorically chaining them in, a more modern understanding: to be a sheriff or policeman
?ShR = to go intentionally / directly (Pr9:16);
to direct, lead (Is3:12;9:15)
All of these are:אשר to have joyful contentment from doing the right thing
In Is 9:15 referring to people who led people astray telling people that what they were doing is right when it wasn’t.
ShRyR(hold firm) muscle (Jb40:16)
One of the derivatives of שרר
YShR = straight
ישר to be straight ⇒ as in upright, righteous
The sense of all of these words is "to hold firm"
Not אשר not ישר nor שרה to let loose Jb 37:3 while you forgot to include שיר to sing
in some cases physically: to wrestle, muscle
in others visually. When you hold something firmly visually, we call that FOCUSING.
Alright, I’ll biteJust looking at the synonyms of ראה to look, also in the sense of to consider, think about, almost all have the idea of focussing:
בקר to look after,
הבר to observe, חוס to regard with concern for (upon),
חזה to vision, view,
נבט to stare, i.e. look closely at or with expectation, נכר to view (or listen) for purposes of recognition, both familiar and strange, and to give recognition ⇒ to estrange, make strange (give recognition that is a stranger), (hit) to disguise oneself (make oneself not recognizable),
עין to have one’s eye on (somebody),
צפה to look out (for, upon) ⇒ to plate (the plating is what is looked upon),
שבר to look to, in the sense of expectation (looking for provision) ⇒ to get provisions (e.g. food), provide for, ⇒ to look over for planning, making provision for action Ne 2:13, 15,
שגח to look steadily, to gaze,
שור to gaze (upon), שזף to glimpse for a moment,
שעה to look with pleasure, approval, hit. look to oneself with approval ⇒ שעה מ remove approval from,
שקף to look out (e.g. from a window), draw one’s attention to (for purposes of looking, acting),
תאה to sight (surveying)
Therefore, when I see any of these words use, I should be thinking of focussing as well?
When we follow our focus, we go directly, intently, and straight toward something.
How about the times we focus on something as something to avoid, and turn the other way? Examples:
זנח to turn, push away from, an act of rejection or spurningקוץ to be aroused in order to avoid
And some of their synonyms.
Tell me something, did I fabricate anything here?
Yes, a connection that is not there.
Perhaps, you can still disagree with my conclusions as to what the names mean, but SRH, ShWR, SRR, ShRR, ?ShR, YShR, mean these things.
No they don’t mean these things.
שיר to singHow does that word fit your focussing thing?
Karl W. Randolph.
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