[b-hebrew] Hb 1:12

Petr Tomasek tomasek at etf.cuni.cz
Fri Sep 9 04:37:40 EDT 2011


On Fri, Sep 09, 2011 at 06:44:41AM +0200, Pere Porta wrote:
> Thank you, Petr.
> And now, please, three questions:
> 
> 1. Do you know of some other similar cases within the Hebrew bible?

Do you mean of the "tikkunei soferim"? As I now have very little time (until
may dissertation is complete) I'll point just to some literature:

 * Carmel McCarthy. The Tiqqune Sopherim and Other Theological Corrections. Göttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht 1981.
 
 * W. Emery Barnes. "Ancient Corrections in the Text of the Old Testament (Tiḳḳun Sopherim)", in: The Canon and Masorah of the Hebrew Bible: An Introductory Reader. Sid Z. Leiman (ed.). New York: Ktav 1974, pp. 379-406.


> 2. Which then should the right meaning/translation be:
> a) We will not die
> b) You, who never die or You, who are eternal...

What do you mean by "right"? I really don't know what "the original" was,
but on the other hand, if this is really an euphemism of some ancient scribes,
the question is: shoud we "untranslate" this euphemism and go back to the
original form or should we translate it as it is but make a footnote:
"beware, this is an euphemism!"? This is pretty up to the approach and
decision of the translater and neither is (in my opinion) wrong...

> 3. And also, please, what does this text at the bottom of your mail mean?:
> 
> EA 355:001  DU DU DU DU
> EA 355:002  TU TU TU TU
> EA 355:003  NU NU NU NU NU NU NU
> EA 355:004  NA NA NA NA NA

Nobody knows for sure :-). It is take from the internet El-Amarna letters archive.
It can possibly be some scribal excercise or eventually some magic formula...
... I found it just funny, because actually this is what is said to small children
(in some cultures) who don't speak yet...

:-)

> Heartly,
> 
> Pere Porta
> (Barcelona, Catalonia, Northeastern Spain)
> 
> 2011/9/8 Petr Tomasek <tomasek at etf.cuni.cz>
> 
> > >
> > > Can someone on this list cast some light on why such a translation has
> > been
> > > possible?
> > > Maybe NFMWT has been mistaken for a Nif'al Participle in the line of
> > NFDWN,
> > > (male) who is judged (2Sa 19:10) or NFKWN, (male) who is decided (Gn
> > 41:32)
> > > or NFBWN, (male) who discerns (Gn 41:33)?
> > >
> > > Pere Porta
> >
> > There is rabbinic tradition of so-called "tiqunei sopherim" (תיקוני
> > סופרים),
> > (also mentioned in the "apparatus criticus" of BHS) which says that
> > originally
> > it should have read "לא תמות", but the scribes changed this into "לא נמות"
> > -
> > as an euphemism, to avoid an idea that the God could die.
> >
> > This place is from the Qumral biblical fragment, so that we have no
> > evidence
> > for what had been in the text originally.
> >
> > I personally consider the "tiqunei sopherim" as a rather _haggadic_
> > tradition
> > and whether there really was such a change should be proved for every such
> > a place.
> >
> > On the other hand, I think that euphemisms and euphemistic changes to the
> > Biblical text makes much sense if we consider that the text was read to
> > public
> > and there was an effort to avoid meanings which could be understood by
> > the public in a wrong way, or may sound offending
> > (see also qerē/ketīḇ places, such as עפלים/תחורים and so on).
> >
> > P.T.
> >
> > --
> > Petr Tomasek <http://www.etf.cuni.cz/~tomasek>
> > Jabber: butrus at jabbim.cz
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > EA 355:001  DU DU DU DU
> > EA 355:002  TU TU TU TU
> > EA 355:003  NU NU NU NU NU NU NU
> > EA 355:004  NA NA NA NA NA
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Pere Porta
> 

-- 
Petr Tomasek <http://www.etf.cuni.cz/~tomasek>
Jabber: butrus at jabbim.cz

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EA 355:001  DU DU DU DU
EA 355:002  TU TU TU TU
EA 355:003  NU NU NU NU NU NU NU
EA 355:004  NA NA NA NA NA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




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