[b-hebrew] Someone knows?
pporta7 at gmail.com
Wed Apr 20 01:24:28 EDT 2011
Good spanner, Karl.
I think the likelihood is 100 %.
You will ask why, of course.
1. In 1S 17:51 we deal with the so called "polel". This is called "polel"
because of the doubling of the L, namely the third (or last) root consonant
of every stem.
Polels -and also Hithpolels- double every last consonant, be it T or not.
There are plenty of examples: in Jb 30:20 we have "wa-titbonen", and you
will understand (doubling of N), from "byn" (Dn 10:1); "sorer", he turned
aside (Lm 3:11), from "swr", to turn aside (Is 7:17) ; "uml'lw", they were
feeble (Jr 14:2), from "amal", be feeble...
2. In 2Ch 22:11 we haven't a "doubled tau". Yes, from a material point of
view there are two taus, yes. But the second tau is but the heh suffix of
the feminine 3rd person singular, which heh becomes tau in the "construct".
The same, for instance, as in birkaty, my blessing (Is 44:3), from b'rakah,
blessing (Js 15:19).
Look at Jdg 14:17 for a case of identical pattern to that in 2Ch 22:11.
3. Now, you're right that HMM has HMTM for the Qal Past, 2nd person plural
masculine: look at Js 6:3 (1st word in the verse): it is from "sabab" (Ez
With all this, maybe you should review again the stuff.
2011/4/20 K Randolph <kwrandolph at gmail.com>
> Now to throw a spanner in the works:
> Looking at the causing to die, we find it written with the tau doubled when
> a personal pronoun is added, 1 Samuel 17:51, 2 Samuel 1:9, 10, 16, 2
> Chronicles 22:11.
> Looking at the boughten dictionaries, there are three verbs, HWM, HMH, HMM
> where often the only way to tell between the different words are the
> Masoretic points. Two of the words have the same meaning, dealing with the
> idea of being in restless motion, stirred up, in commotion, the third one
> HMM is used all but twice in context of war, where the loser is unable to
> continue. HMTM can be conjugated from either HWM or HMM.
> Since no one else has mentioned it, there is another example of HMTM used
> with the second person plural suffix -TM, 2 Samuel 13:28, this time in the
> context of having victory over another person such that he ceases to be a
> viable enemy.
> So the pattern found in Tanakh is that when a personal pronoun suffix as a
> subject is added to the hiphil of MWT that the tau is doubled (not when the
> personal pronoun is an object), and that there are two other verbs that can
> be conjugated as HMTM with the -TM being a second persona plural suffix
> subject, what is the likelihood that this example in Numbers 17:6 is
> conjugated from MWT? Especially when the contexts allow for the other
> So instead of closure, it looks as if I have added more options to the
> list, hence a spanner in the works.
> Karl W. Randolph.
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