[b-hebrew] Someone knows?

Pere Porta pporta7 at gmail.com
Mon Apr 18 01:47:29 EDT 2011


Karl,

In a first approach I think you may be right.

1. Concerning the form -------> we have parallels of your proposed (hamtem)
form in

a. Nm 32:14: qamtem
b. Dt 9:16: sartem
c. Zc 14:5: v'nastem

2. Concerning the meaning:

Maybe we have here a construction similar (not identical!) to that in Dt
7:23 (v'hamam).

But I find here a problem; Karl.

In a context of death and destruction (see 16:35 and the preceding
verses)....  isn't it more logical the meaning "you killed"   -namely,
related to verb "MWT"-   than any meaning related to verb HWM?


Remark: the LXX writes "apektágkate", you killed: in the 3rd century b.C.E
(2,300 years ago). they understood "HMTM" as being related to verb "MWT" and
not to verb "HWM".


Friendly,

Pere Porta


2011/4/16 K Randolph <kwrandolph at gmail.com>

> Pere:
>
>  On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Pere Porta <pporta7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  We have in Nm 17:6 the verbal form HAMIT.EM, you killed.
>>
>
> Is it?
>
> There are two ways of looking at it: one way is to start with an assumed
> pattern and then try to fit what is written into that pattern, and if it
> doesn’t fit, make it fit, and the other is to look at what is there, and ask
> ‘what is it?’
>
>>
>> If we were to write this word in today Israeli script (the pointless one,
>> hasar haniqud), must we include a YUD between M and T?
>>
>> Looking at the context, it looks as if it should be a hiphil of MWT with a
> third person plural suffix, and that’s the way the Masoretes have pointed
> it. From my years of trying to master the Masoretic points, I still tend to
> read the text according to those points. But does that really fit?
>
> If this were a hiphil, then you are right, the normal way to write it is
> with a yod between the first mem and tau. But then, shouldn’t the verb be
> plural? Translated as “You, you caused them to die, the people of YHWH”?
> Somewhat awkward Hebrew, but understandable.
>
> Picture the scene: the day previously a major earthquake just swallowed a
> portion of the encampment and fire descended on 250 leaders of the people.
> These people were questioning Moses’ authority to do what he did. Now a
> hostile crowd is advancing on Moses and Aaron saying, “You, you ???? the
> people of YHWH!” What can “????” be?
>
> From the context, the verb is MWT, and I’ll admit, that’s my first reaction
> too. But was I right? Were the Masoretes right?
>
> Now I am putting up a trial balloon, but the form can be from the verb הום
> HWM, correctly conjugated as a plural, even fitting the context: “You, you
> put YHWH’s people into commotion!” or in more colloquial English, “It’s your
> fault that the people of YHWH are stirred up!” i.e. questioning Moses’
> authority and actions. Look at the following chapter as well.
>
> Are we dealing with another case of incorrect pointing? How would you
> puncture that trial balloon? What do you think?
>
>>
>> Kind regards from
>>
>> Pere Porta
>> (Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain)
>>
>> Karl W. Randolph.
>
>


-- 
Pere Porta



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