[b-hebrew] Reading Jehovah in Psalm 16:2 and in Psalm 110:1

James Christian jc.bhebrew at googlemail.com
Mon Jun 21 18:29:50 EDT 2010


I still don't see any clear statement of a position you hold here Dave.
Could you spit it out plain and clear? Which vocalisation/translation do you
support? No need to repeat the issues to me. I am more than aware of them.
This is a subject I've looked into many times before.

James Christian

On 21 June 2010 15:56, <davedonnelly1 at juno.com> wrote:

> Hi James Christian,
>
> You wrote:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> I've seen several of your messages to the list over the last year or so
> and
> they seem to be dominated with treatment of Yhwh tetragrammaton. However,
> much as you have presented questions on the subject to the list at
> various
> periods I have yet to date still not managed to extract a position from
> your
> questions. Just what is it you are trying to prove with these kind of
> questions? Are you in favour of Jehovah translation, Yahweh translation
> or
> something else?
>
> Personally, I think the best translation is Yhwh. It's the only thing we
> know for sure about the name.
>
> James Christian
> =================================================================
> =================================================================
> James,
>
> Up until June 19, 2010, I was looking for the truth concerning what the
> Masoretes had actually written,
> concerning how [yod-shewa-he-defective holem-waw -qamets-he] was to be
> read by a Jewish reader
>
> Back in 2001 when I started to seek the truth concerning this issue,
> scholarly sources like the Jewish Encyclopedia of 1905 and the
> Encyclopedia Britannica of 1911 were teaching that the Majorettes had
> placed the vowel points from "Adonis" into "YAHWEH" to indicate to the
> Jewish Reader that he or she was to read [yod-shewa-he-defective
> holem-waw -qamets-he] as "Adonai" and not as Jehovah.
>
> I struggled with this for several years until during the last few years
> when the writings of Gesenius became available on the Internet, and I
> realized that Gesenius acknowledged  [UP FRONT] that the vowel points of
> "Adonai" and the vowel points of   [yod-shewa-he-defective holem-waw
> -qamets-he] WERE NOT EXACTLY THE SAME.
>
> For me this changed everything, since what I had considered to be the
> "standard defence" for why  [yod-shewa-he-defective holem-waw -qamets-he]
> was NOT to be translated as Jehovah, NO  LONGER SEEMED TO BE VALID, IN MY
> LESS THAN HUMBLE OPINION.
>
> However at this time I became aware from multiple sources outside of
> b-hebrew [and later by b-hebrew]
> that the evidence being presented as to why [yod-shewa-he-defective
> holem-waw -qamets-he] was not meant to be translated as, or read as, or
> rendered as Jehovah,  had changed drastically
>
> And then on June 19, 2010 I started the following new thread by writing.
>
>
> >>>
> Recently two separate members of B-hebrew discussed translations of Psalm
> 16:2 and Psalm 110:1 in which the translation "Jehovah" was used. Neither
> member criticized the use of Jehovah in the translation of these two
> verses.
>
>
> Is it now acceptable to use Jehovah in the translation of these two
> psalms???????
> >>>
>
> So James, I assume that both you and I noticed that only Yitzhak Sapir
> raised some serious issues about the translating of one of the six
> variants of YHWH found in the Leningrad Codex,  as Jehovah!!!!!
>
> But Yitzhak Sapir  had serious reservations as to whether this issue
> should be discussed further
>
> Yitzhak Sapir wrote:
>
> >>>
>
> Hello Dave,
>
> When I quoted that particular translation, I felt extremely
> uncomfortable.
>
> For all kinds of various reasons, though, I left it as it was.
> Primarily, I didn't want to reopen a discussion on Jehovah vs Yahweh vs
> the Lord
> which would have taken the discussion off-track.
>
> Also among the reasons, it was a quote and I felt that even if I had an
> extreme discomfort with his quote
> it is best to quote verbatim than to change the author's own words.
>
> Yitzhak Sapir
>
> >>>
>
>  Dave Donnelly,
>
> P.S.
>
> I would be happy to have this discussion reopened and to invite Jason
> Hare and Steve Miller
> to express their views on this issue..
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