[b-hebrew] Reading Jehovah in Psalm 16:2 and in Psalm 110:1

davedonnelly1 at juno.com davedonnelly1 at juno.com
Mon Jun 21 08:56:54 EDT 2010

Hi James Christian,

You wrote:

Hi Dave,

I've seen several of your messages to the list over the last year or so
they seem to be dominated with treatment of Yhwh tetragrammaton. However,
much as you have presented questions on the subject to the list at
periods I have yet to date still not managed to extract a position from
questions. Just what is it you are trying to prove with these kind of
questions? Are you in favour of Jehovah translation, Yahweh translation
something else?

Personally, I think the best translation is Yhwh. It's the only thing we
know for sure about the name.

James Christian

Up until June 19, 2010, I was looking for the truth concerning what the
Masoretes had actually written,
concerning how [yod-shewa-he-defective holem-waw -qamets-he] was to be
read by a Jewish reader

Back in 2001 when I started to seek the truth concerning this issue,
scholarly sources like the Jewish Encyclopedia of 1905 and the
Encyclopedia Britannica of 1911 were teaching that the Majorettes had
placed the vowel points from "Adonis" into "YAHWEH" to indicate to the
Jewish Reader that he or she was to read [yod-shewa-he-defective
holem-waw -qamets-he] as "Adonai" and not as Jehovah. 

I struggled with this for several years until during the last few years
when the writings of Gesenius became available on the Internet, and I
realized that Gesenius acknowledged  [UP FRONT] that the vowel points of
"Adonai" and the vowel points of   [yod-shewa-he-defective holem-waw

For me this changed everything, since what I had considered to be the
"standard defence" for why  [yod-shewa-he-defective holem-waw -qamets-he]
was NOT to be translated as Jehovah, NO  LONGER SEEMED TO BE VALID, IN MY

However at this time I became aware from multiple sources outside of 
b-hebrew [and later by b-hebrew]
that the evidence being presented as to why [yod-shewa-he-defective
holem-waw -qamets-he] was not meant to be translated as, or read as, or
rendered as Jehovah,  had changed drastically

And then on June 19, 2010 I started the following new thread by writing. 

Recently two separate members of B-hebrew discussed translations of Psalm
16:2 and Psalm 110:1 in which the translation "Jehovah" was used. Neither
member criticized the use of Jehovah in the translation of these two

Is it now acceptable to use Jehovah in the translation of these two

So James, I assume that both you and I noticed that only Yitzhak Sapir
raised some serious issues about the translating of one of the six
variants of YHWH found in the Leningrad Codex,  as Jehovah!!!!!

But Yitzhak Sapir  had serious reservations as to whether this issue
should be discussed further

Yitzhak Sapir wrote:


Hello Dave,

When I quoted that particular translation, I felt extremely

For all kinds of various reasons, though, I left it as it was.
Primarily, I didn't want to reopen a discussion on Jehovah vs Yahweh vs
the Lord 
which would have taken the discussion off-track.  

Also among the reasons, it was a quote and I felt that even if I had an
extreme discomfort with his quote 
it is best to quote verbatim than to change the author's own words.

Yitzhak Sapir


 Dave Donnelly,


I would be happy to have this discussion reopened and to invite Jason
Hare and Steve Miller 
to express their views on this issue..
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