[b-hebrew] 'Vocal shwa' had no true/phonemic quality at the time of LXX.

Garth Grenache garthgrenache at hotmail.com
Fri Jul 2 21:09:55 EDT 2010

Thank you Yitzhak,

for your intelligent response.

I suppose that, in general, we are aiming at different things.

I am aiming at an original & presumably phonemic pronunciation:
 to me non-phonemic details are meaningless and unimportant to my quest.

You have shown me that:
Y> In any language, a word has a particular realization.
Y> For example, the word "top" in English has an aspirated t.
Y> This aspiration is not phonemic, but this doesn't mean
Y> that the word top is pronounced sometimes with and
Y> sometimes without aspiration.  So even if some particular
Y> aspect of the realization of a word is not phonemic,
Y> this does not mean that the realization (in this case,
Y> the vowel) may change on the whim of the speaker.

I agree with you.
The various different realizations of a word's phonemes
in different languages, dialects and communities,
are not to me part of the true/original/meaningful
pronunciation that I am aiming at.

It is the phonemes that are of primary interest to me.
Then, of secondary interest is how those phonemes are realised in LXX Hebrew,
Babylonian Hebrew, Tiberian Hebrew, etc.

So I don't disagree that the Tiberians of the 10th century,
and perhaps even a thousand years before,
pronounced Yoho-.
But what was original and what was in their minds is more pertinent
to the discussion of the original and proper pronunciation of YHWH I seek.

Y>Garth, wouldn't [yho]/[yhu] be just as problematic in light of YW spellings
as [yoho]/[yuhu]?

Either way,
you have shown me that neither yho or yoho is problematic
 as the potential origin of Heb YW and and Gk IW.

Either way,
it is evident that the second o of yoho existed before the first.

Therefore the first o of yoho is a development,
 a non-phonemic realization of what came to be marked as schwa.

What was this entity
 *before* it became realised as o here and as other vowels elsewhere?
 *before* it became marked with Tiberian schwa?

That is of interest to those seeking the original pronunciation of YHWH.

Garth Grenache,

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