[b-hebrew] Was the MT for public consumption?

fred burlingame tensorpath at gmail.com
Sun Dec 26 19:52:12 EST 2010

Hello Bryant:

That's exactly my point. The first two codices were discovered in egypt; and
the third discovered in rome. The documents appear completely and entirely
written in greek language, unlike the dead sea scrolls discovered in judah
and written 80 percent in hebrew.

The question then arises; why is the first 2/3's (OT) of these
codices automatically assumed a translation from biblical hebrew language;
and the last 1/3 of the documents (NT) automatically concluded as the
original language greek?

That division of language origin suffers significantly at the hands of
hebrew language synagogue services in 20 a.d. .... galilee.

And then of course, approximately 2/3's of the NT involves quotations from
and references to OT.



fred burlingame

On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Bryant J. Williams III <bjwvmw at com-pair.net
> wrote:

>  Dear Fred,
> Regarding your #5.
> The Codices Alexandrinus, Sinaiticus and Vaticanus were combined LXX for
> the OT and Koine Greek for the NT.
> Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
> ----- Original Message -----
>  *From:* fred burlingame <tensorpath at gmail.com>
> *To:* Bryant J. Williams III <bjwvmw at com-pair.net>
> *Cc:* George Athas <George.Athas at moore.edu.au> ; B-Hebrew<b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
>  *Sent:* Sunday, December 26, 2010 8:19 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [b-hebrew] Was the MT for public consumption?
>   Hello Bryant:
> ?
> Thanks for your informative comments.
> ?
> 1. I only mention the term "faith" in order to mark the boundary of this
> forum. I understand the border of this list includes "fact."
> ?
> 2. Your statement that the scroll of isaiah?would have been?read in
> biblical?hebrew language?to the synagogue?congregation in
> galilee,?approximately?20 a.d.; and that the congregation would
> have?understood the reading in hebrew, fluently .... goes to the heart of
> the matter. A most significant statement indeed.
> ?
> 3. This instructor of hebrew concludes the funeral of biblical hebrew had
> not occurred in 20 a.d. see chapters v & vi.
> ?
> http://www.adath-shalom.ca/rabin_he.htm
> ?
> 4. Likewise, this author so concludes mishnaic?hebrew continued as a common
> spoken language in 20 a.d.
> ?
> http://www.adath-shalom.ca/history_of_hebrew.htm#PostExH''
> ?
> 5. "2" - "4" above weigh heavy indeed on the forbidden question. ..... Was
> the last 1/3 of codices alexandrinus, sinaiticus and vaticanus .......
> originally composed in the hebrew language .....? And "2" - "4" above?imply
> that the affirmative?answer to that question?involves?"fact" rather
> than?"faith."?
> regards,
> ?
> fred burlingame
> ?
> ?
>   On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 3:07 AM, Bryant J. Williams III <
> bjwvmw at com-pair.net> wrote:
>>   Dear Fred,
>> ?
>> Read my post again. It answers most of your questions.
>> ?
>> Now, regarding your second point. Modern scholarship is divided over
>> whether there were one, two or three Isaiahs. Conservative scholarship
>> treats Isaiah being produced by one person, the prophet Isaiah. Most modern
>> scholarship treats Isaiah as being written by two, maybe three persons. It
>> is based on the discredited JEDP theory of Graf-Welhausen. SEE archives for
>> previous discussions. I gave you a very brief discussion. I will not comment
>> further since it is going into areas limited by List guidelines. Remember,
>> ALL we have is the text. To go beyond that is to give a pre-text which is no
>> text at all. Basically, it is eisegesis not exegesis.
>> ?
>> It appears that you are making the classic dichotomy between faith and
>> fact. Faith and knowledge go hand in hand. Both are intuitive, intellectual
>> and experiential. Both are used in determing fact from fiction.
>> Unfortunately, too many people think that if something is stated by reason
>> of faith that it is automatically fiction. As I said, "Faith and knowledge
>> go hand in hand." Faith, belief, or trust is used in when determining the
>> value placed in a document that is being used as a source whether it speaks
>> of fact or fiction. Knowledge will lead a person so far. Faith takes up
>> where knowledge leads off. It looks at what is presented before with
>> knowledge and proceeds from there. This is not rocket science.
>> ?
>> You seem to be questioning a lot of the presuppositions that are inherent
>> in what has gone before. This is always good to a certain extant. But,
>> sometimes, it could be construed as being?pedantic or just arguing for
>> argument sakes. An example would be when I teach the High Schoolers or
>> College Age or, even, the Adults in Sunday School, or in the preaching
>> services, I make several statements. First, I am a Christian. Second, I am a
>> Baptist. I then ask the group that I am teaching or preaching to, "If you
>> claim to be a Christian, 'Why are you a Christian?'" "If you are a Baptist,
>> Why are you a Baptist?'"?Give the reasons for your claims. This appears to
>> me is what you are doing on the list. If I am wrong, then please correct me
>> and accept my apologies. In fact, I may have inadvertantly exceeded List
>> Guidelines. To the moderators, If I have please accept my apologies.
>> ?
>> Now, Luke 4 and the use of Isaiah 61 in the Synagogue of Nazareth. It is
>> clear that Jesus read from the Hebrew text (See Commentary on the NT Use of
>> the OT). He sat down and proclaimed that the Scripture passage was
>> fulfilled. It is also apparent that the congregation was being read to and
>> that they understood the Hebrew (at least according to all the evidence from
>> antiquity and archaeology). It is also possible, maybe probable, that it was
>> read in Hebrew, translated into Aramaic for the congregation. That is why I
>> told George that it is more than likely both/and not either/or.
>> ?
>> Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
>> ?
>>  ------------------------------
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