[b-hebrew] Seir and El Paran

Arnaud Fournet fournet.arnaud at wanadoo.fr
Tue Dec 14 03:38:36 EST 2010


From: <JimStinehart at aol.com>


>
> Seir and El Paran
>
> Genesis 14: 6 says that XRY live at $([Y]R [“Seir”] and )[Y]L P-)R-N [“El
> Paran”].  The traditional view is that XRY are troglodyte cave-dwellers 
> who
> live at a place called “Hairy” (Seir) in the barren land south of the Dead
> Sea and at the Gulf of Aqaba.  The modern view is that the XRY are the
> historical Hurrians, but that they are non-historically portrayed at 
> Genesis 14:
> 6 as living at a place called “Hairy” (Seir) in the barren land south of
> the Dead Sea and at the Gulf of Aqaba.  But “Hairy” seems a strange name 
> for
> a city or region, and there is no support whatsoever for the scholarly 
> view
> that )L P-)R-N somehow, some way means the Gulf of Aqaba.  Both $(-R 
> and )L
> P-)R-N are right there, however, on Dr. Fournet’s website.  Since the text
> tells us that XRY live in those two places, doesn’t it make sense to take 
> 5
> minutes to glance at these words on Dr. Fournet’s website?
>
> The original spelling of “Seir” was likely $(-R, perhaps representing
> $e-ir.  $(YR is probably a later, updated spelling, though the 
> pronunciation may
> still be about the same:  $e-ir.  When one thinks of XRY and $e-ir, one
> cannot help but think of Amarna Letter EA 24, written in Hurrian, at 
> IV-115,
> where we see $e-e-ir-ri + suffix.  Per Dr. Founet’s website, the literal
> meaning is “king”, reported at p. 99 as $erri.  But in context, the likely
> actual meaning of this Hurrian proper name is “(God Is) King”.
***

1. Serri or Sarri is not a Hurrian word but a Semitic borrowing.
In all cases, the root is S_r, there is no (.

2. “(God Is) King” cannot be a possible Hurrian name.
In addition Hurrians were not monotheistic.

To be frank, you're merely sinking into absurdity.

Are you not * tired * of that theory?
Or has it become a kind of game to defend it at all costs?

A.
***



Hurrian
> princeling IR-Heba of Jerusalem refers to this same place, east of the 
> Jordan River,
***

We have mentioned before that this reading is dubious.
A.
***


> as $e-e-ri at Amarna Letter EA 288: 26.  Although Seir is traditionally
> thought to be southeast of the Dead Sea, in the Patriarchal narratives 
> “Seir”
> /$erri/$e-ir must be located in Gilead, north of the Dead Sea (at or near 
> the
> city later called “Jazer”, an important locale not too far from IR-Heba’s
> Jerusalem), because when Jacob is in the hill country of central 
> Transjordan
> east of Shechem (15 miles north of Jazer) upon returning from Naharim in
> chapters 32 and 33 of Genesis, Jacob cannot avoid meeting his estranged 
> older
> twin brother Esau coming up north from “Seir”.  Genesis 33: 14
>
> As to )L P-)R-N, the Hurrian word for “feast, holy day” is eli-burni, per
> Dr. Fournet’s website at p. 81.
***
eli-burni means "sacred house = temple"

eli is a borrowing from Akkadian.

A.
***


Hebrew ’L represents Hurrian eli.  The
> Hurrian word burni, meaning “temple”, is alternatively spelled in Hurrian
> pu-ur-ni (p. 85), comparing to the Biblical version P-)R-N.  [The Hebrew 
> author
> viewed the U in the -ur- syllable as being prosthetic, but that vowel was
> needed in order to show the syllable division in this three-syllable 
> Hurrian
> word, hence the Hebrew aleph.]
>
> When the Biblical text flat out tells us that XRY are living at those two
> places, shouldn’t we then take a few minutes to look for these names on 
> Dr.
> Fournet’s website?  If it’s on Dr. Fournet’s website, rest assured that 
> JEPD
> knew nothing about it!  Most of the 30 Hurrian names in the Patriarchal
> narratives are on Dr. Fournet’s website, and all such names pre-date JEPD 
> by
> centuries.
>
> How is the old JEPD scholarly theory as to the Patriarchal narratives 
> going
> to survive the existence of Dr. Fournet’s website?  I don’t think it can.
> Why would anyone think that the XRY are troglodyte cave-dwellers or
> non-historical Hurrians who live south of the Dead Sea at a place called 
> “Hairy”
> and at the Gulf of Aqaba?  Do university scholars expect us to take those
> views seriously?  Why is it that we never hear about the Hurrian words 
> $e-ir
> and eli pu-ur-ni when university scholars tell us that what Genesis 14: 6 
> says
> about the XRY is fictional?

***

yes
"fictional" is indeed an adequate word.

Arnaud Fournet




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