[b-hebrew] Genitives/construct state in Isa 9:5

Steve Miller smille10 at sbcglobal.net
Wed Dec 8 17:24:32 EST 2010


Just because the final 3 names are 2-word pairs does not mean that the 1st
name must be a 2-word pair also.
The 1st in a group can be special.

Pele is 1st because it is salient. The 1st characteristic of this promised
son is that he is beyond human comprehension.
It doesn't do justice to pele to make it a modifier of "counselor", as in
"counselor beyond human comprehension", or "wonderful counselor".
Pele stood alone in Jud 13:18.

On the other hand, "counselor" seems too common to stand alone, just as
"hero", "father" and "prince" are too common to stand alone. But maybe not.
I don't have a better solution.

I have been toying with the idea that el gibor means "God-man". If there was
no waw in gibor, I would have a case, because without the waw, gbr always
refers to a human being. If anyone has anything pro or con, I would
appreciate it.

Fyi -  Abiyud, "Father of eternity" is 1 word in MT, but 2 words in DSS.
Yet Immanuel is 1 word in DSS (Isa 7:14; 8:8,10), but 2 words in MT,  making
it ambiguous in MT whether "Immanuel" or "God is with us" is meant in 8:10.

DSS also has the def. article on shalom.

Sincerely,
-Steve Miller
Detroit
www.voiceInWilderness.info
Blessed is the man who walks not in 
the world's counsel of sin, 
nor standeth in the sinners' way, 
nor with the scornful stays,
because he delights in the law
of the Lord, and in awe
he meditates both day and night.
His mind is being made right. (Psalm 1:1-2)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donald R. Vance, Ph.D.
> 
> PL> could be either absolute or construct (morphologically masculine
> segholate nouns have identical abs and cs forms). YW<X is a participle and
is thus
> a verbal adjective (matching the noun/adjective constructions that
follow). Of
> course, adjectives can function as nouns (as GBWR does elsewhere).
> Morphologically, >L could be either abs or cs. >BY is definitely cs.
Morphologically,
> CR could be either abs or cs but is clearly cs in this instance.
"Supernatural
> counselor"
> doesn't seem possible to me for PL> YW<X. The word order is wrong. If you
> connect them it would yield something like "a counseling miracle"
> which doesn't make sense, at least to me. HALOT gives "a marvel of a
counselor."
> Go figure. Breaking up the pairs that can be separated yields, "Miracle,
Counselor,
> God, Hero, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace," which makes good sense. JPS's
"The
> Mighty God is planning grace; The Eternal Father, a peaceable ruler" is an
abortion.
> 
> Donald R. Vance, Ph.D.
> Professor of Biblical Languages and Literature Oral Roberts University
> dvance at oru.edu donaldrvance at mac.com
> 
> 
> On Dec 7, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Kenneth Litwak wrote:
> 
> > This last weekend I read a commentary on Isa 9:1-6 in preparation for
> > a sermon.  The author stated that Isa 9:5 has four pairs of words, and
> > since three of those pairs have a genitive relationship, the fourth,
> > PL) YW(C, likely does as well (making it "supernatural
> > counselor" rather than "wonderful, counselor).   In looking at the
> > other pairs, however, SR SLWM appears to be the only pair in
> > construct.   )L GBWR and )BY (D just look like nouns followed by
> > adjectives.  Am I missing something here?  Thanks.
> >
> > Ken




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