[b-hebrew] And Samuel turned back after Saul: the meaning of 1 Samuel 15:31

James Read J.Read-2 at sms.ed.ac.uk
Tue Jul 28 14:45:31 EDT 2009


Apologies,

the Greek may not have rendered in you email client. You can see it  
direct here:

http://www.myriobiblos.gr/bible/ot/chapter.asp?book=9&page=15

and here is the Vulgate online:

http://www.latinvulgate.com/verse.aspx?t=0&b=9&c=15

James Christian

Quoting James Read <J.Read-2 at sms.ed.ac.uk>:

> You yourself provided his agenda when you opened this thread. Alter
> evidently has a problem with Samuel being with Saul at the moment in
> question. There are many inadequacies of the NWT but one thing I like
> about it is its literalness which helps those who don't know Hebrew
> see at a glance what the original Hebrew says literally:
>
> So Samuel returned behind Saul, and Saul proceeded to prostrate
> himself to Jehovah.
>
> Quite literally Samuel returned behind/after Saul. Alter's reasons for
> his translation are quite clearly not linguistically based. They are
> theologically based.
>
> I don't know if you read Greek but here it is in the Greek translation:
>
> ??? ????????? ??????? ????? ?????
>
> opiso is quite literally behind. The Greek translations of old are in
> agreement with the Hebrew.
>
> For completeness here is the Vulgate translation:
>
> reversus ergo Samuhel secutus est Saulem
>
> The Latin has secutus (sense of following).
>
> So, you see, there is a very long and ancient tradition of this
> understanding. It is not something which merely appeared in English
> renditions. Karl has already explained why the Hebrew commands such a
> translation. Alter, whoever he is, has not provided any other
> linguistic argument other than the use of his reputation (which I know
> nothing of).
>
> All in all, the linguistic evidence is strongly stacked against
> Alter's commentary and his comments have all the signs of a
> theologically based objection which introduces bias to his translation.
>
> Beware of idolatry. It is possible to idolise men as well as statues.
>
> James Christian
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Jay Frank <jif95 at mac.com>:
>
>> James,
>>
>> You write: "Karl has given you the linguistic arguments."
>> Yes, and I am grateful.
>>
>> Having written regarding Professor Alter: "I have to admit I don't
>> know who he is either." you then write: "I strongly suspect that
>> Alter has theological reasons for his interpretation."
>>
>> I strongly suspect that you have qualitatively insufficient warrant
>> to make such a claim, nor do I see what possible theological
>> reason(s) might serve as an agenda underling his translation.
>>
>> With regards,
>>
>> Jay
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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