[b-hebrew] Genesis 41: 1: "Two Years of Days"
JimStinehart at aol.com
JimStinehart at aol.com
Wed Jul 15 15:22:47 EDT 2009
Although I already answered both of your questions, I will answer them
again, this time making the answers simpler.
1. You wrote: “1) When do you see a boy becoming a man? Stating things
like 'In the ancient world ... blah, blah, blah' is not an answer unless you
willing to provide some evidence in some form. If your only evidence
is how they support your conclusions then this is called 'circular
reasoning' and is unlikely to convince me.”
The Jewish custom of a Bar Mitzvah at age 13 indicates that in the ancient
and medieval worlds, the approximate time at which a boy became a man was
age 13. Likewise, the fact that most females in the ancient world bore their
first child by age 15, and that age 13 was commonplace for a female to bear
her first child, indicates that a girl became a woman in the ancient world
at approximately the same time as a boy became a man.
2. You wrote: “2) How does the Quran's importance of the number 19
support you claims when there is no indication of whether their tradition refers
month years or 12 month years? Restating your interpretation and
embellishing me with further details of further conjectural
interpretations of similar style is not what I consider evidence. It
is just conjecture heaped on conjecture. Are you actually going to
offer any evidence in the near future or just keep embellishing
further conjectural ideas?”
It is an objective fact that the number 19 has outsized importance in the
Koran, and is viewed positively in the Koran. The most likely explanation
for that numerical fact is that the Koran correctly ascertained that in terms
of the 6-month “years” that are used to set forth everyone’s ages in the
Patriarchal narratives, Ishmael was age 19 “years” when he was exiled by his
father Abraham. (That is age 9½ in regular, 12-month years.) Thus the num
ber 19 symbolizes the birth of the Arabs, who later became Muslims. It was
when Ishmael was age 19 “years” in the Patriarchal narratives that Ishmael
is portrayed in the text as separating from the Abraham-Isaac line. That is
the explanation for the otherwise mysterious sura 74: 30 in the Koran:
"Over it is 19." The number 19 symbolizes Ishmael, the birth of the Arabs, and
the birth of Islam.
3. There is no way that Joseph is age 17 years, in 12-month years, at
Genesis 37: 2. And there is no way that Ishmael is age 16 years, in 12-month
years, in chapter 21 of Genesis. No way. If they were such ages, they would
be grown men, not “boys”/nar/N(R. Rather, Joseph’s stated age of 17 “years
” at Genesis 37: 2, and Ishmael’s stated age of 13 “years” at his
circumcision (prior to Isaac’s birth) at Genesis 17: 25, are set forth in the text
in terms of 6-month “years”. On the day he was circumcised, Ishmael had
witnessed a total of 13 New Years in Canaan: 7 spring New Years and 6 fall
New Years. Ishmael was age 6½ regular, 12-month years when he was circumcised.
The “secret” of the ages of people in the Patriarchal narratives, a “secret
” that was fairly widely known prior to modern times, is that all person’s
ages in the text are set forth in terms of how many New Years they had
witnessed, counting both spring New Years and fall New Years, combined. The
calendars in ancient Canaan, and the Jewish calendar to this very day, reflect
two New Years every 12 months, which in turn reflect the two critical annual
harvests in Canaan, in the fall and in the spring. Each of those harvests
was of equal importance to the Hebrews, and hence each heralded a New Year.
That is the ancient basis for why the first day of the New Year in the
Jewish calendar is in the fall, but the first month of the New Year in the
Jewish calendar is in the spring.
But when the Hebrews are in Harran or Egypt, being places that only had one
New Year every 12 months, periods of years in those foreign lands are set
forth in the text in terms of regular, 12-month years. As I noted in my
first post on this thread, the verbal clue that a different meaning of “year”
will be used in those foreign lands is the presence of the phrase “of days”.
Before the first use of “year” to mean a foreign, 12-month year (in
Harran), we see the phrase “a month of days” at Genesis 29: 14. And the first
reference to a period of years in Egypt contains this same verbal clue, as
the phrase is “two years of days” at Genesis 41: 1. Those verbal clues tip
us off that the periods of “years” referenced in the text in Harran and
Egypt will be set forth in terms of 12-month years, even though all people’s
ages in the text are set forth in terms of 6-month “years”.
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