[b-hebrew] Carmel: The Town of David's Abigail

K Randolph kwrandolph at gmail.com
Wed Jan 14 13:06:50 EST 2009


I will limit myself to linguistic statements in this response.

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 8:00 AM, <JimStinehart at aol.com> wrote:

> ...
> (b)  As to location, ...  But all
> the Biblical evidence, and all of the evidence from the secular history of
> the Late Bronze Age, shows the northern edge of the Sorek Valley as being
> the
> location of Abigail's Carmel.
> You have not considered any of the Biblical evidence, making the above
statement foolish.

 The JT at the end of item #93 is
> aleph-tav/)T, a common word in Biblical Hebrew meaning "namely" or "near".

Nope, it means "with", as in to go with someone. You obviously don't know
Hebrew, as shown by this elementary mistake.

> "But one of the young men told Abigail… 'they [David's irregulars] were a
> wall unto us both by night and by day, all the while we were with them
> keeping
> the sheep.'"   I Samuel 25: 14, 16
> The entire main point of chapter 25 of I Samuel is lost if Abigail's Carmel
> is erroneously viewed as being in a safe locale 7 miles southeast of
> Hebron.
> Arabic names in the common era of Arabic villages should not be allowed to
> trump what the Bible says.
> You didn't read 1 Samuel 25.

NBL had sent his shepherds down to the lowland wilderness to winter
pastures, where David and his men were hiding. The event mentioned in 1
Samuel 25 took place in spring, when NBL took his sheep up from the lowland
wilderness to the highland summer pastures. We know this from two sources:

1) Time: this was the time of the shearing of the sheep. Shearing is done in
the spring to remove the heavy winter coats, at the same time they are
brought to highland pastures.

2) Geography: this was done in the highland pastures in the region of
Carmel. Large flocks like this were not brought into a town to be sheared,
rather the shearers went out to the sheep. (This is another evidence that
Judean Carmel in Biblical times was not a town, rather the equivalent to a

You use your theory to trump what the Bible says.

In this case, according to linguistic analysis, Yigal Levin is correct, and
you are wrong.

> But Gath-Carmel should logically be viewed, rather, as being Abigail's
> Carmel
> of chapter 25 of I Samuel...  Carmel/KRML (or Ginti-Kirmil) was a city
> located on the northern edge of the Sorek Valley, near the Aijalon Valley,
> a little
> west of hill country, in both the Late Bronze Age and the Iron Age.  Though
> denied by essentially all scholars (who unfortunately choose to rely
> exclusively
> on the Arabic name in the common era of an Arabic village southeast of
> Hebron), the objective facts from the ancient world speak for themselves.
> Again you have made the logically indefensible claim that because two
places shared a similar name, that they are the same place. The names are
different enough to call your claim into question. Further, one was the name
of a town, the other of a county. What is the probability that Thutmosis and
his men named counties? I think almost nil.

> Jim Stinehart
> Evanston, Illinois
> Why don't you learn Biblical Hebrew before making your claims, so that you
could see for yourself whether or not there is any linguistic backing for
your theories?

By the way, you never did tell us your qualifications. What are you hiding?

Karl W. Randolph.

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